Okay. That's it. I'm done. Come get this peice of SH**!!!

[jester911]

Hang in there man. We are pulling for you. Cool off for a few and you will be able to look at it again. With the guys on this board I know you will be able to look back and laugh at this.
Good luck.

[911boost]

Dammit Kurt, I almost had to change my pants, you blew a muffler in half?

[zuffenhausen]

Originally posted by porsche_virus
I never removed the dizzy at all, so it should still be in alignment.

Ah, I'll bet that's your problem. You see, cam timing actually determines when each cylinder is at the firing position (TDC ignition) and it's possible that you've set the timing correctly, but one revolution away from where it used to be. That is, when cylinder 1 used to be at TDC ignition, now cylinder 4 is. So, to correct this you need to remove the distributor and put it back in rotated 180 degrees.

Do this:

1. Pull the valve covers for the left bank.

2. Rotate the engine to the Z1 mark and check to see if both rockers on cylinder 1 have clearance (valves not being depressed at all). If not, turn the engine over one full revolution to Z1 again. Now both rockers should have clearance.

3. Pull the distributor cap off and look at the rotor. If the tip of the rotor isn't pointing towards the electrode for cylinder 1 (I think there's a rough timing mark on the distributor body, too), then you need to remove the distributor, rotate it until it does, and reinstall it.

4. At that point, you should have things close enough for the engine to run. Then you need to set the ignition timing properly with a timing light.

I know this is frustrating for you, but you really need a basic understanding of a four-stroke internal combustion engine to tackle this kind of project, and it's obvious you don't have that. While I think books like 101 Projects and the like are a great resource, they do some owners disservice by encouraging them to tackle work they really aren't ready to do themselves. You've only owned this car for a couple of months and already you're trying to rebuild the engine, and in a very shortcut kind of way.

Good luck.

-zuff

[Jim T]

Originally posted by zuffenhausen


I know this is frustrating for you, but you really need a basic understanding of a four-stroke internal combustion engine to tackle this kind of project, and it's obvious you don't have that. While I think books like 101 Projects and the like are a great resource, they do some owners disservice by encouraging them to tackle work they really aren't ready to do themselves. You've only owned this car for a couple of months and already you're trying to rebuild the engine, and in a very shortcut kind of way.

Good luck.

-zuff

Yes, based on the earlier post, this one had the makings of an adventure from the get-go!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=81750

I agree - it does appear that you jumped in with both feet very quickly and without a lot of real research/learning. However, I agree with the others, you can get there if you keep at it!

Good luck!

[makaio]

Hang in there man! You can do it!

[Kurt B]

This was my thinking at the time. Put the dist back in. That looks right. Won't start. Hmmm.
Okay, have someone crank it and I'll turn it til it starts. Turning this way, turning that way nothing.
Turning more. Turning more. Keep cranking it almost started.
This way...no, that's the wrong way, lets give it one big crank this way.
Crank it...keep cranking....

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

Holy *****. I just died.

There's black dust all over my pant legs. I'm standing there looking around.
I check my arms to make sure all my limbs are there.

Look down, and there's the 914 stock muffler, which had definitely seen it's better days, and yup, it's in half.

Then I put the dist back in correctly. I'm sure it was off 180 degrees.
Oh well, that would never happen again. Drove around with the Harley sounding 914...I mean LOUD, got a new muffler. Wish I had saved the old one.

[widebody911]

I mis-wired my VW Scirocco's distributor one time. Went to start it - kaboom! Had to fetch the airbox cover from my neighbor's 2nd story balcony.

[Oldporsche]

Hey, I heard that bang down here in Spfd. mo.

If I were closer, I would get up there tonight. What ever it is, its simple. BTW, Stephen Kasper is up there not too far from you. He's PorschePHD. He's sharp. There are a lot of people in the KC PCA that are very good also.

Slug down a few cold ones and sleep on it. You have spark and gas so running is not that far away.

Good luck,
David Duffield

[stormcrow]

KC,

It's easy to give up and walk away from a problem and say "I quit" but it's much harder to hang with it to try and solve the problem. It sounds like you have a handle on what you are doing so now is not a time to give up.

You just need to sort things out, check your distributor timing with a timing light. This will at least let you know that the #1 cylinder is firing when it's supposed to. Next check your compression - this will let you know that the valves are closing when they are supposed to.

Both timing and compression need to be there in the right sequence for the engine to fire properly. If either one or both are out of sequence then backfiring occurs or the engine will not run.

Keep at it, with all the help on this board, your porblem will eventually be solved. "DON'T GIVE UP" With what you've done so far, you have the capabilities to solve the problem.

Don't get anxious, take a deep breath, relax, have a beer, watch the nude fashion show on televison, go for a walk. watch a movie, go to the mall, kick a can, take a smoke break, jog, watch fox news, don't worry, be happy.

Steve

"A Porsche does more then just go fast in a straight line"

[Sunroof]

KC..........
Listen to the board....there is decades of experience to pull from.
These guys took me out of the depths of depression last week when I botched up my valve adjustment (figure that one out) and I panicked because the car would not run. I jumped on this board with an SOS so fast I did'nt take time to wash the crap off my hands!!!!

After some much needed direction I did stepped away and re-evaluated what I did and what was suppose to be correct. Minor incident compared to yours at this point, but nonetheless, I felt that deep pit in the old stomach as well.

Relax, and put your trust in the Pelican head brotherhood. Get the consenus and put the experience to work. You'll be up and running in no time.

Regards
Bob
73.5T

[sbarrett]

I had a similar experience after rebuilding a VW engine with my son. We installed it and proudly tried to start it. We tried everything we could think of to get it running...but after the tremendous back-fire we re-evaluated. Sure enough, we were looking at the engine (while it was out of the car) from the front. We had the spark plug wires reversed. We re-positioned them and it fired right up and ran like a champ!

Good luck with yours!

[zuffenhausen]

Originally posted by Doug Zielke
Now do this to find out......

Doug,

Your procedure will NOT work, at least not to determine if the spark plug is firing when cylinder 1 is at TDC ignition. I see there is a lot of confusion on this. Let me see if I can explain it clearly:

The 911 engine is a four-stroke engine and it takes TWO full revolutions of the crank for any cylinder to complete its cycle. The cycle is: intake, compression, ignition, and exhaust.

The cams run at half the speed of the crank, and they determine what phase of operation a particular cylinder is in at any particular time.

So, if your rotate your engine to the Z1 mark, you're at one of TWO possible conditions: Either cylinder 1 is at TDC with both valves closed, ready to fire (TDC ignition), or cylinder 1 is at TDC with both valves slightly open, preparing to intake charge (TDC overlap). If cylinder 1 is at TDC ignition, then cylinder 4 is at TDC overlap. If cylinder 1 is at TDC overlap, then cylinder 4 is at TDC ignition. That's why you have to look at the rockers to tell whether you're at the correct Z1. If they're loose, you're at TDC ignition on cylinder 1 and you can install the distributor with the rotor aimed at the rough timing mark. If the rockers are not loose, you need to rotate the engine one full revolution.

So, the cams, not the crank, determine what phase of engine operation you're in. Then based on that, the distributor can be timed to match.

KC:

Yes, since you set the cam timing and that's what determines where the distributor needs to be, I think it's very likely that the distributor is 180 degrees off.

-zuff

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by stormcrow
Have you done a compression test on it?

the compression test and the dizzy rotor position will be a base line.. the rest is easy.........Ron

[Tspringer]

Uhhhhhhhh turning the engine by hand with a wrench on the crank pully and the ignition turned on could be a bit dangerous... This reluctant motor just may decide to get a tad anxious and people have broken their arms this way.

Remove #1 spark plug. Place a piece of good duct tape over the plug hole in the valve cover. Clean the area and make sure you have a good seal. Rotate the engine (ignition off). . When the tape pops off, you on the compression stroke. Remove tape and place a straight piece of coat hanger into the hole all the way down. Rotate the engine (ignition off). Carefully watch the rod and turn slowly until the piston is clearly at TDC. If you go to far, rotate twice until back on the compression stroke and stop when the piston is as close to TDC as you can get it. Now make sure the rotor is pointing at the #1 plug on the dizzy cap and install / tighten the distributor. The timing should be close enough for it to fire and get a timing light on it.

If it does not fire, but you do have spark, then your problem is probably fuel related, or your cam timing really is way off. If the engine however rotates freely (no apparent piston to valve contact) then the cam timing should be close enough for it to fire.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

Terry

[Wayne 962]

Don't give up just yet. Check your timing by putting the dial indicator on the valve covers, and rotating the engine. Check the opening and closing of the valves...

-Wayne

[82SC]

if you want to get the nut off be sure to buy yourself a nice long breaker bar...length equals torque...they are really cheap

trying to do it with a regular socket wrench is way too hard

MJ

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by RoninLB


the compression test and the dizzy rotor position will be a base line.. the rest is easy.........Ron

I was wondering if the cyl. 4,5,6 cam was timed at overlap.......Ron

[Oldporsche]

Your distributor rotates @ 1/2 crank speed. Yes, If you take the distributor out keeping the rotor at the same position relative to the case, and turn the crank 360 degrees and put the distributor back in with the rotor in the same relative position with relation to the case, you will effectively have changed the position of the distributor 180 degrees. When I have to do this, I just pull the distributor out of the case far enough to rotate the distributor rotor 180 degrees and drop it back in.

From your description the position of the valves and cams in relation to the crank sounds about right.

If you can figure out the problems with windows xp, you can do the porsche.

One of the checks I use is making sure that I know which cylinder is number #1. Does the rotor point to number one spark plug wire with the distributor cap on? Simple stuff like that.

Good luck,
David Duffield

[Targa77]

The last time my car backfired like that (my ears rang for hours), my distributor was 180 degrees off. Like stated before, I simply placed my engine at Z1 mark, removed the distributor nut, lifted the distributor and then dropped it back in with the rotor pointing towards terminal 1. Started right up.

[RoninLB]

at Z 1 / cyl 1 firing, both cyl 1 rockers should have .004 clearance.. and cyl 4 should NOT.. but check present position[don't adjust them] of rockers on cyl 4 anyway, WTF.. and at Z1/cyl 1 firing the rotor should be pointed at cyl 1 spark plug wire..

if rotor is pointed at cyl 4 plug wire I would leave engine/crank alone and remove dizzy after marking the present position of the dizzy case with a marker from dizzy case to engine, or note position of vac. canister on dizzy.. this will allow clearance for rotation for ignition timming later.. remove dizzy adjust rotor and install. then you can "dead Time" the dizzy.................Ron