I have a 3.2 with a 915. The engine is great and has never broken down or had any trouble (I guess the motronic is really a good thing). My particular transmission has a slightly...agricultural...feel compared to a modern manual transmission. It's still a blast to drive and the usual DIY improvements have really improved the shifting tremendously. I would think that the G50 transmission cars probably cost a little more for that reason.

Since you are looking for a light weight coupe check out this car. It's on Detroits craigslist. Not related in any way to me. Search 1984 911 Porsche Euro Carrera - $35000 . Notice it's got Euro skinny bumperetts and rear fog light. No sunroof. It has H4 or H1 headlights.
I like my SC performance. It shifts fine and as someone stated before the harder you drive it the better it shifts.

You're in FL. You need air conditioning. In my mind, this means that you need an 86-89, because of the A/C improvements. I like the SC better, but I have a ROW targa with SSI exhaust and live in a place where heat is more important than A/C. G50 vs. 915, 3.0 vs. 3.2, you'll go crazy thinking about it and never come to rest. But the A/C improvements are reason enough to prefer a later car.

Hi, the SC's and the Carrera's are both great cars. Like any used car, particularly ones that are now thirty years old +/- you really want to find a very good one. I think that at this point it would be fair to use the cliche that states that 'you only get what you pay for'.

I myself would tend to lean towards a 3.2 Most years of the 911's saw gradual improvements, and all though not that noticeable, the 3.2's do have larger brakes, more hp and the preferable Motronic ignition system, as others have already stated. (1984-89)

BTW, the 3.2 hydraulic chain tensioners are not a problem as a previous post stated. The SC's have spring tensioners, and most have upgraded to the 3.2's hydraulic type.

I understand that you do not, in general, do mechanical work? If that is so, I personally would be looking high and low until you find a premium SC or Carrera that has had only a couple of owners. Look for one that has low/lower mileage, records, original paint and upholstery that both are in great shape. An owner of a 911 like this will get a premium price; the purchaser will end up being one very happy guy.

We have a '86 Carrera, which they claim is the 'last of the Mohicans', meaning that it has no power steering and has a cable clutch.The full synchro G50 is without doubt smoother shifting but at the same time, the 915 in our '86 shifts very well. It doesn't leak oil, it uses a quart of oil around 850 miles, it does not smoke on startup, and has been very reliable. I have had the clutch replaced and have replaced, more or less, all of the sensors over time. This though was only done as preventive maintenance. Other than that, it has had the same foibles that most SC's and Carrera's both have.

Unfortunately for the current shoppers, the prices for these cars, as you may know, has over doubled within the past couple of years. Some now find, after wanting to own a classic 911 for some time, that the current higher prices have kind of put a damper on purchasing one.

My advice would be to look until you find a very good SC or Carrera, and then have a full mechanical inspection done by a reputable Porsche shop/mechanic. They will perform the normal checks such as brakes/calipers, alternator, clutch, suspension, transmission, electricals, including the not so common leakdown and compression tests. They should also be able to verify for you if it has had any major accidents.

Just keep on looking until you find the right car... It can be very time consuming, but it will prove to be well worth your time and effort in more ways than one.

After owning two Carreras (both '86) and now an '88 CE, my opinion is that the G50 transmission is in another world from the 915. The 915 drives fine and is a good transmission WHEN it is set up well (most are not), but the G50 is smooth as butter and a joy to drive. The G50 only adds about 25 lbs. over the 915. The hydraulic clutch feels a lot better than the cable-operated one in the 915, and is self-adjusting and fiddle-free.

I don't know where you got the idea that the 3.0 has more torque than the 3.2. Not true. The 3.2 has more torque AND more HP. The 3.0 may feel like it has more torque, but it doesn't. I wouldn't know what it feels like as I've never driven one. The Carreras are only around 150 lbs. or so heavier than an SC, which you would never feel driving around on the road. You could feel it in competition driving, but the 3.2 is also more powerful than the 3.0 which makes it up. Here are the torque and DIN HP numbers:

78-79 SC - 175/180
80-83 SC - 189/180
84-86 Carrera - 192/207
87-89 Carrera - 195/217

The source of this data is Peter Zimmerman's "The Used 911 Story". Peter posted earlier in this thread. I recommend reading his book before deciding what you want.

A word on A/C. It SUCKS in any pre-964 car. The bigger dash vents were an attempt by Porsche to help the miserable A/C system, but it was a failed attempt. If you want good A/C in any of these cars, it's going to cost a minimum of $2k to install a decent aftermarket system (Griffiths, Kuehl, Rennaire). There are many, many threads on Pelican about this. Do a search and you'll have weeks of reading to do.

I just did 1800 miles in my 84 Targa this weekend, and the transmission worked just fine. The 3.2 Carrera is just a fantastic car. http://financeisok.com/loan/images/37.gif
http://financeisok.com/loan/images/39.gif http://financeisok.com/loan/images/59.gif

One simple answer.
Buy them both.
Enjoy them both.
If you don't like one of them... Sell it.
You may even make a profit in a year or two.

That was easy.

These cars are all 'old' now. Some quick rough opinions after owning an 81 SC and driving an 88 3.2/G50.

-I like my CIS and it is setup well and works well. The motronic is likely a better system period. Since I like my CIS, I don't like to admit this, but its probably true.

-A tired transmission in general will suck. My 915 was tired when I got it, it is now sorted and awesome. I drove it back to back with a tired G50 that felt like an 18-wheeler transmission, and couldn't wait to get back to my 915. I'll take a good 915 over a tired G50 any day. I am not blown away by the G50 in general and feel the 915 feels more sports-car like. I like the connected feel of a 915.

-AC sucks in both and need the same upgrades.

Me personally - even though I own an SC, I would likely say 3.2 due to HP and motronic. As others have said - its more how well its been taken care of / condition. Although as you can guess, a top notch '86 3.2 with the updated dash/vents and a good 915 sounds great to me.

And adding to that thought, people are ga-ga over rare colors. I'll take a well cared for Guards Red (not my favorite) over a car that is a semi-mess but is in some awesome rare color any day. The premiums I have seen people try to get for rare colors is getting silly.

Just my opinions....

Yes, this is good advice and exactly where I have been at. I have actually been looking for a few years. I sold my other 914 for the money to buy 911. If I had been more diligent a couple years ago when I sold it it basically would have been a car swap for what I got for my 914. But now they are twice as much. Which is made it more difficult. The search continues...

Yes I have Peter's book and have read it a couple times. Excellent source before buying a 9:11. And yes I agree about the air conditioning. I'm hoping to find one that has been retrofitted as that would be a great bonus and a lot of money saved.

That would be fantastic. He
ad I pulled the plug on one a couple years ago when I sold my 914 I could have two for the price of one now. But they were in a bubble and all over the place then and was very discouraging. Unfortunately I can only barely afford one. But I would love to have a coupe and a targa. But now that I can only afford one it'll be a coupe I think. I love going without the top. I have a 914 and never put my top on it. But I just love the roof line of the coupe. Although that wrap around window on the Targa is killer!

I have had 2 earlier cars that had 3.2 updates put in them, A '74 Targa, and an '83 euro coupe. IMOP if you like open air cars, a Targa is fun, but I like the looks of the coupe much more.
I personally like the European versions, have had 2, an '82 turbo and my current S/C.
Lighter, less emissions crap, Better lighting/headlamps, ect. ( We have in my state an old car license option that does away with emissions and safety inspection, and costs less to license, NICE!) But if you have emissions that's a different story. I do think a 3.2 is easier to get thru emissions running properly. My car had the 200 hp 3.0 before it was exchanges for the 3.2, and the previous owner hated emissions testing every year.
when the 3.0 got tired, that's one of the reasons he opted for the 3.2
The Motronic can be problematic as well, I just put $400 into my DME, but there is more performance potential w/ bolt ons and I think they run better overall.
The 915 is an excellent trans. Porsche overbuilds on a lot of their components. The 915 will support 400+hp all day long if not abused and serviced properly.
The bottom line is ANY car you get, being that old, will need repairs, sooner or later.
You should get some tools and get on the forums and learn how to do your own maintenance. Fortunately, these are fairly easy cars to work on once you get the hang of it, and there is always someone willing to give good advice that's priceless.
Find the car you like, either way, and make it yours. In your situation, the old advice is the best, find the best car you can for the money. They are all awesome in those years.
Just go and find the best deal on a car you can afford and anjoy it!

I had an 84 Carrera a few years ago and an 88 now. IMHO the g50 is just better, easier to drive. Not sure I would put a huge premium on..but the reliability and ease is worth something to me..

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an important consideration is how well sorted the car you're looking at is. Valve guide condition is VERY important on these cars, as worn valve guides will both cause excessive oil consumption and potentially lead to valve/engine failure if not remedied. Unfortunately, fixing worn valve guides requires the top end of the engine to be completely rebuilt and will cost $7+k to have done by a shop. Once properly done, however, the repair should completely solve the underlying issue and leave you with a strong engine for a LONG time. SO -- while I acknowledge that getting a low mileage car would be a plus, as the happy owner of a well-maintained '86 that just passed 170k, I wouldn't shy away from a higher mileage car that's been well cared for and had necessary repairs, etc. Also, since you see virtues in both coupes and targas, I'd personally look for both and let overall quality (and completed work on problem areas) drive your decision.

+1

Both are excellent cars……
SC had more personality and was a hoot to drive……The combo 3.0/915 felt so right... Preferred over the 3.2/915.

3.2/G50 was more refined also preferred over 3.2/915.

I would go for the best condition car for the money.
Given everything being equal….. 3.2/G50 due to value proposition.

Thats interesting as I prefer the 3.2 915 most of all. I have a 1984 ROW which is close to SC weight with 231hp that is the best (to me) 911 I have driven within the years discussed.

I would be great if you could go into more detail as to your thoughts on how they drive.

Another question to ask yourself is what's the REAL Intended use? A couple thousand cruising miles a year won't make a huge difference on repair or reliability issues of a 915 if it's in decent shape to start.

The 3.0 with some exhaust mods is a blast to drive on the streets. I truly never yearn for more power. Track days are another story, but I'd think I'd still be wanting more in a 3.2 (or even 3.6!).

Personality and Balance.... the 3.0 Liter appeared to bring the best out of the 915 and vice versa. They felt very well matched. This also might have been a bi-product of the whole SC package which I felt had more of a Long Hood T feel then either of my 2 G50 cars. They felt more refined.

The 3.2/915 combo felt a bit notchy not as smooth. Candidly speaking, I do not think my 3.2/915 combo transmission was in the best knit and my friend Dave had his totally re-built after I drove his.

To your point WhiteRabbit... there are many who feel the 86 915 Carrera is the best of the 79 through 89s.

I like the fact that I can have friends and family who can drive a stick can jump into the driver seat and have some fun. It gives me joy to see them drive my 87 Targa. I'm pretty sure they would be more challenged driving a pre G50 tranny.

Here you go Scott... More power!

For those who may not have seen this car, Lynn is a fellow Pelican...Now no dissing the guy ay Just appreciate his workman ship. With the Chevy LS7, it is now lighter than with the original Turbo. I say find a Turbo with the motor sacked and then giddy up go it' :D

One very dependable true 'sleeper' when cruisin the highways and byways eh! :cool:

https://youtu.be/NBF5HcXsiI4

https://youtu.be/F6_0n3Xm7kQ

Guys this is all great input and very informative! I'm really enjoying learning from your own experiences especially not having owned a 911 before. :)

Not all SCs are ceated equal, so it's not really valid to compare a Carera vs any SC. I believe in '81 the SC HP got a pretty noticeable boost. And the ROW 3.0s have a different my feel altogether from what I've read.

I've driven an '87 next to my '82, and I can't feel more power in the 3.2, if anything the SC feels a tad peppier. And the trannys don't feel that much different to me, but mine has an aftermarket coupler and a short shifter.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned, a 3.2 is perhaps a better choice if you want to modify for more power. There's no chip to replace in a 3.0. Research the Steve Wing chip and you'll see what I mean. Personally, a stock 3.0 ('82, no cat), is plenty enough power for me, but it's s matter of taste.

This is the best and least biased assessment that I have ever seen, thank you Peter.

If you can operate a clutch, you can drive a 915. Period. Sure, it might take a minute to adjust to the heavier pedal and looser throw, but it's just a gearbox, not some arcane medieval abacus contraption that people can't operate without an long apprenticeship and flight training. The internet anti-hype surrounding the 915 borders on ludicrous. I don't have to pause between gears when shifting my 80,000 mile 915 gearbox. I just shift. I can also shift into 1st while rolling to a stop. Unless a pre-G50 tranny is defective or badly in need or service, anyone can drive it.

A correctly adjusted and serviced 915 is a perfectly good gearbox. It was in production for the better part of 2 decades. It is not defective. It was not recalled. It was not subject to lemon laws. Contrary to internet folklore, remarkably, it actually does shifts the gears. Go figure! Are you going to be shifting with lighting precision where every 1/10 second counts? No, you are not. If you were, you wouldn't be looking at a 30 year old car in the first place, and you'd be driving a modern car with triple the horsepower and PDK, like the pros. If you get a 915 and it's worn out or needing adjustment, just get that fixed. Reliability of the G50 vs 915? The bottom line is that if either gearbox needs service, you're looking at thousands to get it fixed.

Here is a premise worth considering. Some buyers say they are used to a modern Honda gearbox, and that's why they prefer to find a G50. I'll suggest that the entire point of getting an air cooled 911 (and paying top dollar for the privilege) is to have a vintage "leather goggles" driving experience. No power steering. Suspension firmness opposite of "floaty sofa". Mechanical clutch. No nanny assist or stereo or DVD player or Navigation. An exhaust rumble. Even an oil dipstick! The very point of buying an old 911 is that it's nothing like your modern convenient Honda, and that it's different. In that regard, a 915 gearbox is more authentically vintage than a G50 anyway. The guy that wants a modern gearbox probably would not be happy in a 30 year old car in the first place, and might prefer a 997, right?

In general, there is too much "Road & Track" data specification analysis/paralysis here, and not enough test driving. How large is your search radius? You might want to increase it to 2-3 hours. Once you drive these cars, you will see the differences are trivial for road driving. You say that you have been shopping for a couple of years. Shopping for cars is a fun journey, but to pull the trigger, the first step is to forget about the G50 vs. 915 debate. Comparing weight of an SC and 3.2 is also very academic. For 99% of your driving, the differences are moot. It seems CIS vs. Motronic is the most practical factor that may influence your search parameters.

After you decide on '78-'89 or just '84-'89, shopping for your car is not like ticking off a "build sheet" for a new $150k car you are ordering from the factory. You are limited by real world constraints of what is available and crosses your path, even if you plan to budget $1000 for each car you jump on a plane to visit. Make it your goal to physically view 5 cars soon. With that, you will get a better sense of what is out there, because when the right car comes around, you are not going to have time to dilly dally and think about it. It will be sold from right under you. You need to get to a place where you know the market, the basic range of condition of cars out there, and be ready with a stack of cash.

As many others have already said, the last word in this discussion is to buy your SC or 3.2 in the right condition and history, from the right owner, within your search radius, at a price you're comfortable with.

I think the real answer is, it doesn't matter. As usual, buy the best one you can afford. If you have a choice between a clapped out G50 car and a pristine SC, I'd recommend the SC.

915s aren't the greatest, admittedly, but if they're set up well they feel just fine and can be reliable.

When I was shopping, really nice 915 Carreras were in the low 20s and the premium for a similar G50 car was about 25%. For the price difference, I decided I could have the 915 fully rebuilt with every improvement available (Wevo, etc).

On the other hand, if you have the money, sure, go for a G50.

I was on the horns of the same dilemma a couple of years ago. The decider for me was the DME vs. a CIS car. The DME won hands down. I went for a later Carrera with the G50 and hydraulic clutch as icing on the cake. Now upgrading the AFM DME to Sal C's MAF system with much improved throttle response. Not wild about the impact bumpers but have always liked the classic 911 form. Had not had a 911 for 30 years but getting in and starting it up was much like slipping on a pair of comfortable old shoes.

I have had an 81 SC for five years. It took this long to de-bug, new trans etc. it was featured on the 2012 Porsche calendar. It has passed on to my son, but I'm storing it while he completes his electronics training for the Army's drones. So I'm getting seat time in a well sorted SC for a while. In 2014 I lucked onto a beautiful slate blue metallic 84 Carrera. I bought it through my mechanic of4 years, not asking for a PPI, because he is such a great wrench turner. Drove it through a few tanks, and it burned through a quart of oil every 200-250 miles. I paid full retail, and was very disappointed that he sold me a car (and got a commission) with at least a bad top end. I loved the car for the 14 months until the engine fried a couple of plugs, and is no longer running.before it went down, I greatly enjoyed it. I have no favorite choice(when they're both running)
Each has a distinct set of advantages. The big one is that SC motors don't break. The Carrera needs a full engine rebuild at less than 150000 miles. This is a big deal, and is the reason I haven't been able to enjoy it for over a year, as complete top quality engine build with "while you're in there" is way out of my league. I have a damaged hand and a bad back, so no way I'm doing the work myself.the point of this story is:
ALWAYS get a PPI from a mechanic that has no previous exposure to the car. ALWAYs

I got a 3.2 because I do all the work on my car and Motronic is similar to a lot of other EFI systems I've worked on.

I got a 915 because a) I saw a lot more of them, and b) I didn't feel like laying out the extra cash for a G50 car. I don't mind how the 915 shifts and I like that I can rebuild it in my garage when the time comes.

I got a post-85 because I live in Southern California and wanted a better starting point for upgrading the AC (bigger vents).

So those were my reasons. Yours may be different, and the right car for you might be different. Like in that link that Peter posted, stuff like reliability and repair costs between all of them are pretty much a wash.

The golden rule is to get the best-condition, best-running car you can afford, or that you happen to find. Buying a basketcase that's always in the shop sucks way more than getting an SC and thinking later on, "hmm, I wish I could chip this car for a little power bump." At least you're still having fun.

Plus, if you get a car in good condition, they're easier to flip if you change your mind. My first 911 was an '86 cab. 8 months after buying it, I started to realize I wasn't a huge fan of the ragtop. I found a coupe that I liked, bought it, and sold the cabrio for more than I paid for it within 2 weeks. There are still plenty of these cars out there.

I was just at my mechanics shop and he showed me a G50 apart on the bench.

They are getting old AND expensive/complicated
YIKES! I'd buy the 915 if I was concerned about repair costs.

I'd be interested to hear from transmission repair experts. Maybe call one and ask for a repair estimate.

Yeah. The G50 is much more expensive to rebuild if needed. The flipside is it's not likely needed a rebuild and not as fragile as the 915 if maintained.

Yeah we're on the same page. Most don't even really consider this a factor because the air conditioning is so lacklustre to begin with. But in areas like ours, especially Florida where it's a lot more humid, every little bit makes a big difference.

I have had both 915 and g50 3.2 carreras.
I thought I had to have the G50, and after driving both found I like the 915 once the shifter bushing is addressed.
Do not pass on a nice car if it has one or the other, just not enough difference either way.

SCs also respond to SSIs better (?) than Carreras and therefore can give you a cheap-ish boost to offset the no-chip-ability of the 3.0. Agree with everyone here - find the nicest one you can afford and go crazy. They aren't getting cheaper, don't waste too much time.

I was talking to Jeff at Partsheaven and he said the biggest problem he's having right now is that the old 911s are not coming in anymore -- meaning he's not getting any more donor cars (or as many donor cars as he used to get.) That's a sign the market is still tightening...so you would be wise to make a decision and go boldly forward with it. There are plenty of people who love 915s and G50s, plenty who love SC and Carreras, etc.

This is the first time I've read this.
Any truth anywhere in this statement?

I've read that the motronuc runs richer overall than the CIS which can fry your valves over time. Maybe the longer stoke adds to the fragility too, but I do think it's accepted that the 3.0 is a bit more bulletproof.

No....

To address the last several posts,
1) a richer mixture will cool valves a bit better as more vapor coming in the chamber will in essence have a slight cooling effect on the intake, but mainly a richer mixture will run cooler, thus keeping the valve temps down especially on the exhaust..
2) as far as the 150,000 mile idea, the S/C I own was well cared for, driven regularly, yet was very tired at 150,000 miles. Both have had stud issues, valve guide issues, but the biggest difference I can see is that the S/C uses a 10mm connecting rod bolt, the Carerra in the 3.2 uses a 9mm connecting rod bolt. My guess is Porsche thought the extra stroke on the 3.2 would give more torque, which it does, and would keep people from revving them as hard. Upon rebuild most go to Raceware bolts on the 3.2 and that problem is solved...

tuma..for your reference...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/907344-1988-g50-shifter-alignment.html

With 911 prices as they are, it seems like if you find a decent deal, you'll get your money back out of anything you aren't happy with. The point being, if you find a car with a 915 that's properly adjusted, and decide after a few months that you don't like it, you'll at least break even and be able to go buy something with a G50.

That said, if you've never owned either one, you'll never really know the true difference until you do. If you're at all on the fence and the tranny is the biggest obstacle, it looks like you should focus on '87-'89 Carreras and just get the most evolved G-body model you can. You know the reputation for the transmission, and it's not like it's going to be WORSE than a 915.


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