Different Tea Trays ?

[Cook&Dunning]

I bought this Carrera tail & base last year - date code 1183 there is a 6 below 512

[javadog]

The question I have is whether that tail came off of a M491 car... Those appeared to use the 930 base, with the usual Carrera rubber, grilles and air baffles. Do you have a photo that shows the side profile?

JR

[Cook&Dunning]

[Karter18]

Originally Posted by javadog

Hi Gerry,

My original comments were made in the context of the original poster's query about a car made in 1982. At that time, the Sonderwunsch program was just gathering steam as something accessible to mere mortals with a big checkbook. Although there were some special things available to customers as far back as the mid-50's, and there was a department that catered to customers (usually people that actively raced one model or another) it wasn't until 1978 that Porsche made the program an official department and created a brochure advertising their services. Initially the work was mainly one-off type stuff but by the earliy '80's the slant-nose cars were becoming sort of a regularly produced model and the program was expanding.

The problem for US buyers was that, in 1982, VWOA was still the official importer and I can tell you from personal experience that they didn't give two ****s about any special requests. I ordered a new car that year and even though I had some connections to the dealer network, all they would do through normal channels was what was available in the order guides. I picked up the car at the factory and I suppose I could have driven it over to the special wishes shop and got in line but that might have taken a while.

By the time of your visit in 1986, the program had morphed into Porsche Exclusive, as Peter Schutz had decided two things. One, the US would get get the same car as the rest of the world (which didn't actually happen in practice, but we did get things like the M491 cars) and two, that Porsche could make a lot more money if they came up with a lengthy list of useless doodads that they could charge money for. These items were available to be ordered through the dealer network and there was more of a "anything goes" culture at PCNA. There were still some restrictions, as Porsche didn't want to jeopardize the EPA/DOT certifications. To this day, Porsche won't sell you certain things for a US car (certain seats, roll bars, etc.) as they don't have DOT certification for them.

There are a few cars floating around the US from the early 80's that the current owners claim are cars from that program. There's even one in my town, an '83 SC with flared fenders. I've never seen any official documentation for these claims and usually the current owners are the third or fourth in the cars' history, but you never know.

Thanks for the pics,
JR

The above sounds very accurate from my experience working for different manufacturers. There are several factors can affect this process and remember you guys are talking about 30 year old cars and what they came with from the factory. There could have been dealer, owner, independent, 2nd and 3rd owner installed accessories, options, etc. The best thing to do is check the VIN with Porsche and what the options came from the factory.

Other factors are the dealer and their willingness to place an exclusive order at the time. While it is much more common today it may not have been in the 80's. Plus a dealer would rather sell you a car they have on the ground than one that will be here in three months, another is the personnel at the dealership awareness of any kind of exclusive ordering program at the time and what was available, etc.

With many manufacturers there are default items when ordering their cars such as the black as an interior color as the dealer may be allocated a car and they physically have to go in to change the build by a certain date to get a beige interior or add some different options, etc. There are different time frames for what type of changes can be made and when they can be input as well.

[uwanna]

Originally Posted by Cook&Dunning

I bought this Carrera tail & base last year - date code 1183 there is a 6 below 512

Your tail has the "chicken wire" screen that is used on an actual Turbo. The Carrera M473 option uses the slotted plates and a very fine mesh screen mounted beneath the plates.
I bought an actual M473 tail just to get the slotted plates and fine screens. I installed them into my large size turbo tail to replace the Turbo "chicken wire" screens. I did it because here in Georgia the "pine straw" from the trees gets into everything. My engine compartment was constantly full of pine straw and twigs and such. Problem solved! I think the slotted plates also direct rain away from the center of the engine. Maybe not, don't know. LOL

[Tori]

Originally Posted by javadog

Hi Gerry,

My original comments were made in the context of the original poster's query about a car made in 1982.
JR

Maybe that was just a typo, but my original query was about a pair of '87's

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Karter18

The above sounds very accurate from my experience working for different manufacturers. There are several factors can affect this process and remember you guys are talking about 30 year old cars and what they came with from the factory. There could have been dealer, owner, independent, 2nd and 3rd owner installed accessories, options, etc. The best thing to do is check the VIN with Porsche and what the options came from the factory.

Other factors are the dealer and their willingness to place an exclusive order at the time. While it is much more common today it may not have been in the 80's. Plus a dealer would rather sell you a car they have on the ground than one that will be here in three months, another is the personnel at the dealership awareness of any kind of exclusive ordering program at the time and what was available, etc.

With many manufacturers there are default items when ordering their cars such as the black as an interior color as the dealer may be allocated a car and they physically have to go in to change the build by a certain date to get a beige interior or add some different options, etc. There are different time frames for what type of changes can be made and when they can be input as well.

Not that this is related to Porsche, but it gives a little insight. In 2003, I ordered an Audi RS6. Audi was going to build around 1,000 of these for the US market, in the end I think they made 1,200 and change. They were at the end of the 2003 production, as the base A6 was transitioning to the new 2004-on platform.

I wasn't all that thrilled with the color choices, but I ordered one anyway. I don't remember the date but it was the better part of a year before the car would be produced. The bodies for these cars were built alongside the normal A6/S6 production but they were finished separately, sort of like some of the original quattros and the early BMW M cars.

Audi set up a special network for the propective owners and sent them all sorts of promotional crap, along with weekly status updates and whatnot. The summer of 2003, I traveled a bit to look at some of the color offerings in person. I picked Avus Silver, but there was another silver on the regular A6 that I liked better. I had some connections to Audi (ironically, the same guy that got me in the door with Porsche in 1981) and I asked for them to paint the car this other silver color. They agreed, for the price of $2,500. Not a bad deal for them, as all they had to do was pick up a different spray gun when my body rolled through the paint booth.

About 2 months before they were to begin building my car, I got an email that said the deal was off, because there "wasn't enough time before the car got built." That was obviously horse****, but that was also the end of the discussion.

JR

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Tori

Maybe that was just a typo, but my original query was about a pair of '87's

Ahh, you are correct. I was thinking of another thread about an '82 I've also been responding to.

The dreaded thread conflation strikes again.

JR

[uwanna]

Now I am totally confused! I have two spoiler tails, one M473 Carrera uninstalled and a larger Turbo tail installed on my car. BOTH have the same p/n molded into the base,
p/n 930.521.023.00, and yes I verified twice with my own eyes! The pics (not mine) below show the two types I have.

Obviously, even though they have the same p/n, they are not the same spoiler base! I have looked at three PET PDFs 78-83, 84-86, and 87-89.
They all show the 930.521.023.00 as fitting both the Turbo and Carrera.
CAN"T HAPPEN! The larger base covers the huge hole in the decklid needed for the intercooler. The Carrera base just covers the standard decklid grill opening.
Something is definitely screwey! If you ordered p/n 930.521.023.00, I wonder which one you would receive ? Any thoughts??
Put me down as befuddled!!

[javadog]

I don't know where you are seeing that the 930.512.023.00 part fits both the 930 and the Carrera (apart from the M491 cars, which got the turbo tail). They show a different psrt number for the Carrera in everything I have.

What I don't get is why two completely different parts have the same number molded into them. That can't be right.

JR

[Cook&Dunning]

OK - how about this - isn't the spoiler base actually two halves?- the top grill piece and the bottom bottom half that attaches to deck lid. The top half is where the 930 part number is and perhaps this is the same on both - I wonder if you took the two halves apart that the bottom half would be different part numbers - i.e. 911 or 930

Not a great pic, but you can see the seam between 2 halves

[javadog]

That might be a possibility.

JR

[uwanna]

Originally Posted by javadog

I don't know where you are seeing that the 930.512.023.00 part fits both the 930 and the Carrera (apart from the M491 cars, which got the turbo tail). They show a different psrt number for the Carrera in everything I have.

What I don't get is why two completely different parts have the same number molded into them. That can't be right.

JR

Yes, doesn't seem right, but that's what shows on my two tails. You are correct, the 84-86 PET and the 87-89 PET show 911.521.043.00 for the Carrera. My confusion came from a 78-83 PET which showed the 930.521.023.00 for both the Turbo and the M473 option. Obviously in the early '80s the M473 option got you the BIG turbo tail
That still doesn't explain the molded in same part #s. Perhaps Cook is on to something.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by uwanna

Yes, doesn't seem right, but that's what shows on my two tails. You are correct, the 84-86 PET and the 87-89 PET show 911.521.043.00 for the Carrera. My confusion came from a 78-83 PET which showed the 930.521.023.00 for both the Turbo and the M473 option. Obviously in the early '80s the M473 option got you the BIG turbo tail
That still doesn't explain the molded in same part #s. Perhaps Cook is on to something.

During the SC production, if you ordered spoilers you got the heavy pu-foam tail from 1978-1980 and the turbo tail from 1981-1983.

I'm starting to think that the same supplier made both of the tails during 1984-1989 and just didn't grind the part number off of the molds that were used to make the Carrera tails. A mistake that nobody at Porsche noticed...

JR

[Canada Kev]

Looks like the 512.023 part number issue has had others scratching their head in the past. Curiouser and curiouser...

Originally Posted by ozracer

Recently purschased a spoiler off ebay it appears genuine and looks exactly the same as a carrera spoiler. The body of the spoiler is part number 930512023.00 manufactured by FIBRON 2194.1.00 and appears manufactured in 1983 from the date moulding.

It is fitted with rubber lip 911.512.091.00 which is definately a 911 carrera rubber lip and the fit is perfect. Obviously a 930 part were these identical to the genuine 911 carrera 3.2 spoiler. I have an 84 carrera.

Were these parts interchangeable it doesn't look like its been modified it looks perfect and the rubber lip fit is perfectly flush against the spoiler.

Is it possible this part was used on early Carrera's I know the 84 89 carrera tail has a different part number but not sure if they were inter chageable.

here are the pics

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/729837-930-spoiler-carrera-rubber-lip.html

[javadog]

I'm starting to think that the 930 part number on the Carrera tail base has nothing to do with the part, but has just been mistakenly left on the mold to make the part. The turbo tail base started production in 1978 and I'm betting the company that made them also made the Carrera tails and took an upper half that they were already producing and married to a new lower half. I think Cook&Dunning is onto something.

JR

[centerpunch]

The tea tray rear spoiler was a standard factory option for SC in 1982.

I bought a new 1982 US-spec SC: chose options, ordered from an Ohio dealer, did euro delivery, picked it up at the factory. Here are some pics from 1982 showing the tea tray spoiler and the order info for the car.
.

[lpsalsaman]

Originally Posted by centerpunch

The tea tray rear spoiler was a standard factory option for SC in 1982.

I bought a new 1982 US-spec SC: chose options, ordered from an Ohio dealer, did euro delivery, picked it up at the factory. Here are some pics from 1982 showing the tea tray spoiler and the order info for the car.
.

Wow May of 82, I just getting stationed in Ansbach Germany! Awesome memories and awesome ride!

[Bill Verburg]

This is a whale's tail


these are aero devices used on 911's that are named after the above, note the resemblance, there were multiple variations on these used form '75 to 89 some on 911 some on 930

[Bill Verburg]

This is a tea tray


These are aero devices introduced on '78 930, note the resemblance to the above