To Pop Off or not to Pop Off?

[gomezoneill]

Originally Posted by Marc Bixen

WOW! Just a trans guy? Maybe you should do some research before more stupidity comes out of your mouth gomezo..... Pete Zimmerman is a Porsche GOD when he comments, and is ALWAYS correct. If you don't know So.Cal Porsche history, here's a bit for you. Pete Z. opened Red Line Service, the oldest Porsche only repair shop in So. Cal. in 1975 after a stint at the dealer. Pete was a full fledged master of all things Porsche running Red Line until I purchased the shop at Pete's retirement in 1999. I had been working for Pete since 1995, after 13 years experience at other well known shops. One of those shops actually held the patent on, and manufactured the pop-off valves. I've built and boxed thousands of them, and installed hundreds. EVERY car that came in got one. Then I went to work for Pete at Red Line, and he explained that a properly tuned 911 didn't require this, and they cause numerous problems, so here's a short list of issues I've seen: 1) Pop-off installed backwards, first time it opens it gets stuck on the air filter and...giant vacuum leak, no start. 2) pop-off valve sticks to the o-ring, doesn't open and blows the box anyway. 3) Pop-off valve opens, the o-ring falls out, and again giant air leak, no start. 4) Epoxy gets old, pop-off falls out. and #5) MY FAVORITE, epoxy gets old, cracks, causes a lean mixture, and voila, the customer burns a piston and requires a complete engine rebuild. This actually occurred on a 74 Carrera.
Your choice, tune it right, or put on an unnecessary aftermarket part that most likely will create more AAA tows than you really want. In the 22 years plus I've been at Red Line I've seen less than 10 or 15 blown boxes, and probably only 5-10 of those were regular Red Line Clients.

You don't know sarcasm when you see it do you MARK?

[theiceman]

lots of passion on both sides of the equation . So I would say go with your gut.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by Marc Bixen

To the others, if "he's only a trans guy" was a joke, you're a putz. That is a huge insult and very rude. There are many neubies, as well as long timers who are still learning, and dissing one of the staples of this forum is just plane rude.
Also Tony, You're 100% incorrect on your install info. As I stated, I worked for the company that manufactured POV's and I can guarantee you they are suppose to be on top of the ribs. What are you doing? Grinding down the strengthening ribs?? I'd love to see a photo of that. Early air boxes, the ones identified by the slotted screws can accept this, but later boxes, phillips screw, have the cold start distribution spider inside, and my opinion is that the pop off would bottom out on the main chamber and not be as efficient. Who told you to cut the ribs???? (If I'm reading your post properly).

Marc,

I don’t know how familiar are you about CIS but if you still does not know how a POV is properly installed at this point, you have a lot to catch up. Your Porsche God is not infallible like you think. No human being is always correct and right even Mr. Zimmerman. Like I mentioned before, I like his book and transmission tutorial.

About 10 years ago, I did not know who Mr. Zimmerman was and came across his post about a CIS subject discussed in this forum. I was alarmed by his post and sent him an email. I asked him a simple question about FP relay test. I will omit the detail of his reply because it was a PM. I thank him for his reply and move along. He was not familiar with the intricacy of CIS troubleshooting. This test eventually became a popular method for testing and evaluating a fuel relay in a CIS. He is a good mechanic and writer.

Since you (Marc) had installed numerous POV’s in the last 20 years according to your story and never realized that they were improperly mounted meant you were just following instructions. I don’t blame you. You were young and inexperienced. You were not trained to evaluate like a process engineer or scientist would do. You were doing what was expected from you. You remember the defects and shortcomings of a POV but never realized that those problems were directly caused by improper installation and poor maintenance. All the problems you stated about the POV could be eliminated by simply knowing and understanding how pressure relief valve works. I have to test and evaluate a POV before installation. Unfortunately, some of them are defective fresh from the box. A good POV properly installed and maintained will save your precious airbox.

The problem people don’t realize is that most POV’s were installed incorrectly because of the lack of knowledge and undertanding how it should be done. In the late 80’s and early 90’s, Internet was not in existence. I remember Haynes Manual was the primary source of information.

I thought you installed POV’s before? Why would a POV bottom up?

Tony

[Peter Zimmermann]

Thank you to those who expressed positive comments about me. I'm truly sorry that I gave a poster the impression that "I am not familiar with the intricacy of CIS trouble shooting." Perhaps that is because I use factory manuals for diagnosis/repair, and I must admit that I don't remember the PM, or CIS subject mentioned by Tony. That said, about 5 years ago I contributed to this forum an article that was originally written as a chapter in my book, The Used 911 Story.

That article appears as Posts #10 & 11 in:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/689763-blown-airbox-replace-prevent-while-im-there.html?highlight=CIS+article

I feel that it's still a good, maybe even necessary, post for all owners of CIS Porsches. I strongly recommend that the entire thread be read.

[boyt911sc]

Marc,

You sent me a PM and you wanted information about my personal background and work experience. I will be more than happy to answer your questions but we have to do it in the forum. Do you want me to reply to your PM or not? I have no problem with your inquiries and like to share the information with the community. Please advise.

Tony

[gomezoneill]

Hey Marc take your meds man.

[gomezoneill]

Originally Posted by Marc Bixen

To the others, if "he's only a trans guy" was a joke, you're a putz. That is a huge insult and very rude. There are many neubies, as well as long timers who are still learning, and dissing one of the staples of this forum is just plane rude.
Also Tony, You're 100% incorrect on your install info. As I stated, I worked for the company that manufactured POV's and I can guarantee you they are suppose to be on top of the ribs. What are you doing? Grinding down the strengthening ribs?? I'd love to see a photo of that. Early air boxes, the ones identified by the slotted screws can accept this, but later boxes, phillips screw, have the cold start distribution spider inside, and my opinion is that the pop off would bottom out on the main chamber and not be as efficient. Who told you to cut the ribs???? (If I'm reading your post properly).

Hey Marc " A huge insult" are you kidding ? Maybe you need a safe space. Learn what a emoji means. You're way to offended. What are you 20 years old throwing insults calling people stupid. When you're to stupid to know sarcasm when you see it .

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by gomezoneill

Hey Marc " A huge insult" are you kidding ? Maybe you need a safe space. Learn what a emoji means. You're way to offended. What are you 20 years old throwing insults calling people stupid. When you're to stupid to know sarcasm when you see it .

OK, as a senior pontificator on this forum, I demand you all cease and desist.

Marc, gomezoneill was kidding in his first post about Peter. It was very clear that he has major respect for Peter as I do. If not, he would have probably remained silent.

He did post a smiley, wink emoji indicating he was kidding.

However, with about ten years here, I have viciously beaten members to a pulp on a few occasions like you did. They did not deserve it. It was all me. My mood at the time.

gomezoneill, put the sarcasm in green in the future to remove all doubt.

Stop now, brothers. It's all good.

[gomezoneill]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

OK, as a senior pontificator on this forum, I demand you all cease and desist.

Marc, gomezoneill was kidding in his first post about Peter. It was very clear that he has major respect for Peter as I do. If not, he would have probably remained silent.

He did post a smiley, wink emoji indicating he was kidding.

However, with about ten years here, I have viciously beaten members to a pulp on a few occasions like you did. They did not deserve it. It was all me. My mood at the time.

gomezoneill, put the sarcasm in green in the future to remove all doubt.

Stop now, brothers. It's all good.

Sage advice Robert but I'm not gonna lay down to an insult.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by gomezoneill

Sage advice Robert but I'm not gonna lay down to an insult.

Oh, hell no, you're not gonna lay down.

I piggy backed on your original comment, which carried levity.

Marc punched me out some as well. "Others"

It's a misunderstanding on Marc's part but let's just give him a mulligan.

[Reiver]

Well, this thread is about 'popping off' so I suspect we are still on subject.....

[Peter Zimmermann]

Originally Posted by reiver

well, this thread is about 'popping off' so i suspect we are still on subject.....

lolololololololololol!!!

[gomezoneill]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Oh, hell no, you're not gonna lay down.

I piggy backed on your original comment, which carried levity.

Marc punched me out some as well. "Others"

It's a misunderstanding on Marc's part but let's just give him a mulligan.

You mean Mark not Marc don't you? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[gomezoneill]

Originally Posted by Marc Bixen

WOW! Just a trans guy? Maybe you should do some research before more stupidity comes out of your mouth gomezo..... Pete Zimmerman is a Porsche GOD when he comments, and is ALWAYS correct. If you don't know So.Cal Porsche history, here's a bit for you. Pete Z. opened Red Line Service, the oldest Porsche only repair shop in So. Cal. in 1975 after a stint at the dealer. Pete was a full fledged master of all things Porsche running Red Line until I purchased the shop at Pete's retirement in 1999. I had been working for Pete since 1995, after 13 years experience at other well known shops. One of those shops actually held the patent on, and manufactured the pop-off valves. I've built and boxed thousands of them, and installed hundreds. EVERY car that came in got one. Then I went to work for Pete at Red Line, and he explained that a properly tuned 911 didn't require this, and they cause numerous problems, so here's a short list of issues I've seen: 1) Pop-off installed backwards, first time it opens it gets stuck on the air filter and...giant vacuum leak, no start. 2) pop-off valve sticks to the o-ring, doesn't open and blows the box anyway. 3) Pop-off valve opens, the o-ring falls out, and again giant air leak, no start. 4) Epoxy gets old, pop-off falls out. and #5) MY FAVORITE, epoxy gets old, cracks, causes a lean mixture, and voila, the customer burns a piston and requires a complete engine rebuild. This actually occurred on a 74 Carrera.
Your choice, tune it right, or put on an unnecessary aftermarket part that most likely will create more AAA tows than you really want. In the 22 years plus I've been at Red Line I've seen less than 10 or 15 blown boxes, and probably only 5-10 of those were regular Red Line Clients.

HA HA HA HA HA Ha HA Funny.

[Marc Bixen]

Smile Wavy

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by Marc Bixen

Smile Wavy

Re:POV
boyt911sc, I don't know why I'm responding, but here you go.
And please feel free to answer these:
1) Your professional Porsche background is?
2) Did you work for the company that manufactured these? If you missed it I DID.
3) Doesn't require an answer. I love being questioned by a guy who spends more time on the internet forums than in his car.
4) Hope your happy attempting to insult a professional who contributes to this site? Moderator, I may be done!
There's one born every day.

"you were just following instructions. I don’t blame you. You were young and inexperienced." I didn't realize reading instructions and performing a task as explained in those instruction was incorrect. Perhaps you should read and re-write ALL instruction and technical manuals since you know better.
One other item Mr. Boyt, You may want to re-read your post, and work on your english skills.
" but if you still does not know", "Why would a POV bottom up?"
__________________
Marc Bixen
Red Line Service
West Los Angeles, Ca.


Marc,

To satisfy your curiosity I will try to answer them.

1) Your professional Porsche background is?

Nada. But I have successfully rebuilt more than dozen 3.0 liter engines for other Pelicanparts members including a couple race engines.

2) Did you work for the company that manufactured these? If you missed it I DID.

No. I was employed as an R&D engineer/scientist by a large chemical company in Philadelphia and later joined the a world class chemical company located in Wilmington, DE and has been retired for 12 years and counting.

3) Doesn't require an answer. I love being questioned by a guy who spends more time on the internet forums than in his car.

False. I spent more time traveling around the world with my wife. And the time I spent on the phone answering PP members asking for assistance is becoming a full time job. My wife makes fun of me because my "CIS help desk" is 8:00 AM to 8:00 PM 7 days a week. My wife had a knee replacement last month and was able to travel abroad twice only in 2017.

4) Hope your happy attempting to insult a professional who contributes to this site?

Who started insulting people? Better look at the mirror before you start accusing people. You started making insulting remarks in your post and you call yourself a professional?


"you were just following instructions. I don’t blame you. You were young and inexperienced." I didn't realize reading instructions and performing a task as explained in those instruction was incorrect. Perhaps you should read and re-write ALL instruction and technical manuals since you know better.
One other item Mr. Boyt, You may want to re-read your post, and work on your english skills.
" but if you still does not know", "Why would a POV bottom up?"

Yes. I inadvertently failed to check my grammar and guilty as charged. English is my second language and never professed to be a grammar expert. I hardly spoke English before I migrated to this great country some 40 years ago. BTW, did you say I insulted you?

Tony
A poor struggling immigrant.

[Fixer]

This is why Porsche moved to Motronics,
CIS really brings out the worst in people

[theiceman]

Well in reading this over .. Bob was actually the pop off valve and could have saved his thread .... but alas the pop off didnt work and the thread exploded anyway ...

I think we need to follow this up with a " I really like Loren, he is such a nice guy " thread.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by theiceman

.. Bob was actually the pop off valve and could have saved his thread ....

This year for the first time I waded into PARF. Those guys will fight over the color you painted your garage floor. (Just saying)

I got into it there a few times and had my ass handed to me. Came up for air and realized I don't belong there.

No need for that to happen here over a simple misunderstanding.

[proporsche]

I am an emigrant to US of A too ,,i hope i do not get a ban here??

Ivan