can someone explain to me and this board what a refund is?

[vintagecarlover]

(BEFORE YOU VOTE, READ THIS. #2 is seller refunds only for portion of paypal that was for part only. He doesn't refund any shipping period either to buyer or back. Buyer eats shipping both ways...)
There is I big reason for this posting and that may come out shortly but believe it or not there are atleast one member here who doesn't know what it means to refund for a crappy part so we need the help of this board.
A deal is made and paid for. The part was delivered improperly pachaged and severely damaged during shipping, (although the part wasn't worth shipping to begin with) should the seller:

A). Offer no refund.
B). Refund on portion of purchase price that is 'part only' does not pay shipping portion that was paid to ship part to me.
C). Refund full purchase price
D). Refund the full purchase price and send a shipping label for return of the useless part.
E). Eat the 155. and name the seller.

For the record, I suggested full refund and I supply pics for part after being smashed so no one has to pay 55.to ship a worthless part? Please post ur opinions after taking the poll.

My opinion is avail now by pm about this transaction and likely later in an open air forum.
What do u guys and girls think? I know really good online sellers pay for return shipping. The shipping in this matter was 55. (not cheap) should I have to pay this inorder to get a refund? Maybe I should tell the whole story, post pics of the part which was worthless prior to shipping, include pm and text dialog (they seller said "no" about this because what he said in pms were private, and expose the seller so others may be spared? Let's see how the polls come in...

[NoYouRelax]

I've had a similar experiences with receiving a few bad parts, but fortunately I was dealing with gentlemen under gentlemen's agreements. Each time the issues were resolved. If the matters were not resolved to my liking, I would have exposed the sellers in a minute. This hardly seems like the forum where people get to unload garbage.....weed out and expose the offenders.

[spinmd]

We should stop being so covert about pathetic sellers. If you've allowed sufficient time to make it right and the seller defaults on a bad sale, POST his name and what occurred. However, there is always two sides to a story and the back and forth posts can get laborious.

There should be one more option: Out seller and seller refunds all funds and pays return shipping, sends call tag or part is destroyed with pics.

[agrimmitt]

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I have (2) problems with this issue: first we are selling "used" parts in most cases, there is always two sides to the view of the quality & value of any used part. Second, you need to ask and look carefully at photo's of the part; even asking for additional photo's! I have only had (1) bad dealing with a purchaser who tried to Rip me off and cheat me and UPS. {with me that was a mistake} But that why I insure some items ahead of time if I'm selling them. But I feel (you may not agree with me) the the cost should be refunded when the part is returned (no fault), but the return shipping should be covered by the purchaser who is returning it for a refund. Seems simple but it has worked for me over the years; but having said that, I don't trade on Ebay, from England or Asia.
agrimmitt

[creaturecat]

well........i ate the 120(part not only broken, but incorrect) ....... didn't bother outing the seller.
bit disappointing, i gotta say.

[vintagecarlover]

Originally Posted by agrimmitt

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I have (2) problems with this issue: first we are selling "used" parts in most cases, there is always two sides to the view of the quality & value of any used part. Second, you need to ask and look carefully at photo's of the part; even asking for additional photo's! I have only had (1) bad dealing with a purchaser who tried to Rip me off and cheat me and UPS. {with me that was a mistake} But that why I insure some items ahead of time if I'm selling them. But I feel (you may not agree with me) the the cost should be refunded when the part is returned (no fault), but the return shipping should be covered by the purchaser who is returning it for a refund. Seems simple but it has worked for me over the years; but having said that, I don't trade on Ebay, from England or Asia.
agrimmitt

Just to be clear in ur observation, no refund on the shipping to me and I pay shipping back to the seller? I get the priveledge of paying shipping both ways and seller gets the part to resell to another board member? Just wanna be clear. That costs 110.oo to get back 100.?

[vintagecarlover]

Poll #2 is seller does NOT refund the shipping to me, part only.

[PCA7GGR]

I've been on both sides of transactions that did not happen because questions were asked and additional pics sent. I'd rather avoid the "I'm not happy and want my money back" alternative.

Sometimes that great deal really isn't - "Once burned, twice shy."

[Busterblond]

I'm sorry but you should have a D: all of the above in your poll Buster

[cabmandone]

FWIW, As a buyer I believe it is my responsibility to ask all questions and request all pictures necessary to understand what I'm buying since we're dealing generally with used parts. Since I've sold some parts here, I also believe it it the responsibility of the seller to make sure they describe the part as accurately as you can. The seller needs to be careful what words they use in the description as certain wording can lead to misunderstandings. Sellers should avoid using terms like "like new" or "in perfect condition" as most used parts are not like new or in perfect condition.

If you make a purchase based on pictures you've seen, unless the item is simply not what you viewed, it is your responsibility to pay return shipping. As a seller, I always try to make sure the part shipped is insured for the purchase price to protect both me and the buyer in the event the piece is damaged in shipping.

Having written all of the above, I sold a gas tank a while back that I described as "new" I failed to inspect the inside of the tank and found that from sitting empty and without plugs, the tank had some surface rust inside. I refunded a small amount to the buyer as a good will gesture and to offset the cost of having the inside of the tank etched and coated. From this experience I learned not to describe old parts as "new" even though they may have never been used.

Just my .02 worth.

[mshaver51]

This is really a complicated discussion with too many variables. The part in question was deemed "worthless," yet a buyer and seller agreed to a price, which means it was not 'worthless,' by definition. Then, the 'worthless' part was damaged in transit, and the question turns to some implied obligation for a refund.

"cabmando" has it pretty much exactly right.

First, I don't sell 'worthless' parts. In my view, it should be understood (and perhaps even a forum rule) that the value of used parts is specifically agreed between the buyer and seller when the transaction takes place. If a part has a value agreed by the buyer and seller, it cannot be 'worthless.'

Second, in my transactions, the seller is responsible for the terms of the shipping and the cost of shipping. If the buyer buys insurance, the damages during shipping should be covered by the shipper. If the buyer does NOT want insurance -- for whatever reason -- then the buyer assumes the risk of damage during shipping. Furthermore, if the item was not packaged properly, the shipping company generally won't (or shouldn't) insure it. With insurance, if the part is damaged during shipping, the insurance covers the cost/value of the part, and the buyer is responsible for obtaining the insurance payment.

Third, any buyer of a part from me is entitled to a refund, if the part is not what it was represented to be. I've never had this happen, but I would honor my obligation to represent the item properly and fairly. To obtain the refund, the buyer should return the item at the buyer's expense.

As someone else noted, if photos of the item are provided in the ad, it's difficult for me to comprehend how the seller could be at fault for misrepresentation, but I suppose it is remotely possible. If the buyer didn't look at the photos, it might be time for the buyer to become an adult. If there are no photos in the ad, then don't buy the damn thing.

Finally, the idea of "calling someone out," is a dangerous practice. I suggest being very careful. There are lots of people who are never prepared to admit that they are wrong; or they should have looked more carefully at the photos; or that they should have paid for shipping insurance.

This is a good forum with literally thousands of transactions per year, and only a tiny few of those transactions run afoul. If the buyers and sellers each take honest, adult responsibility for their part of a transaction, there should be no need for referees.

Just my opinion.

[Hcarraro]

Agrimmitt is absolutely right. No matter how flat the pancake there are always two sides to a story.

So let's don't leave out the pathetic crooks and scumbags that are buyers too. I have several instances where a buyer returned a part that really was the part they removed from their car. After an episode with two fuel pumps...to the same buyer I marked the last fuel pump. When I was informed that that fuel pump was bad too, I informed the buyer not me another and that I had secretly marked the last one after testing it. He disappeared. What a nice way to replace broken parts that one can then resell. Scumbag

I started marking all of my parts. Now when I don't find my secret marks on a returned part and I inform the buyer of this conclusion and that I am not in any way interested in providing a refund or a replacement part.....it is amazing at how fast they disappear.

There are crooks on both sides of a private party transaction.

[nineball]

i refuse to vote until the first post makes sense. spelling is your friend.

[vintagecarlover]

Should a buyer request pics of a part after its boxed to make sure seller boxes correctly? I trust that common sense is used in packaging.
Should a seller box a fiberglass part (for arguements sake, let's call it a ducktail) with the duck part shipped exposed through a hole cut into the box? Should the buyer pay 55.for anykind of shipping where part is busted off the metal lid underneath because of the shipping?

[vintagecarlover]

Nineball, u are totally correct. Misspelled 'recieve or receive is just wrong. My apolgies sir. I tried spelling crappy with 1 p and it didnt look right. If I missed something else pls don't embarrass me and my 8th grade edumacation and send a pm so i can correct things to ur standards. Lol. Thanks. I needed that.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by vintagecarlover

Should a buyer request pics of a part after its boxed? Don't think so...
Should a seller box a fiberglass part (for arguements sake, let's call it a ducktail) with the duck part shipped exposed through a hole cut into the box? Should the buyer pay 55.for anykind of shipping where part is busted off the metal lid underneath because of the shipping?

YES! even if a part is boxed, if you aren't sure about the condition, you should request additional pics. I've taken parts out of the box and sent pictures just so the potential buyer is aware of the condition and there are no misunderstandings. If it is too much trouble for the seller to take the part from the box for additional pictures then they're probably not a seller one should deal with. If a part is packaged and ready for shipping before it sells, I post a picture of the packaging so the buyer can see how it will be shipped. As for the damage in shipping, you should also request a picture of the part being shipped in the packaging and pay for or have the buyer include insurance on the part being shipped so if something happens, you're covered.

[Norm K]

Originally Posted by vintagecarlover

Should a buyer request pics of a part after its boxed? Don't think so...

Why on Earth not? If you had a seller tell you an item was already boxed, inferring that no photos were available, and you subsequently reached an agreement in the absence of any visual confirmation of the item's condition, then a lot of this is on you. Maybe the seller is a lying scumbag, maybe he's not. But it certainly sounds as though he, intentionally or not, waved a large red flag in your face and that in spite of this warning you did nothing to protect yourself in advance. Your own words make it appear that this was poorly handled at your end.

[agrimmitt]

Originally Posted by vintagecarlover

Just to be clear in ur observation, no refund on the shipping to me and I pay shipping back to the seller? I get the privilege of paying shipping both ways and seller gets the part to resell to another board member? Just wanna be clear. That costs 110.oo to get back 100.?

Yes, if the seller requires the {his} part back, then you (the unhappy) purchaser should return it paying the cost if you want a refund, unless a photo of damaged part is ok with him. Now this is a one sided game if your not careful; he gets is part back and you may or may not get a refund. {have paperwork in hand} Always use a credit card even on Paypal. Do your homework upfront not after the fact, ask questions, know what and the condition and review photo's carefully before you send the money. Some purchases are not viewed the same by both parties, I have purchased items that looked just OK, then to find it looked and was find when I opened the box. Like I said it's a used part, do you homework or purchase it for our sponsor. 95% of the guys try to honestly list upfront what he or she is selling and the condition; but not all!
agrimmitt

[techweenie]

Almost all of my bad parts buying experiences have been with Pelicanheads, unfortunately. In most cases, the problems seemed inadvertent (like the smashed engine lid I got from the seller after buying from a pristine photo [he said I should be happy because of the price I got -- his asking price] and refused any responsibility). There was also the right front fender I bought that turned out to have been in a moderate accident and also was an aftermarket repro. Took 7 hours of work to make it useable - in that case, I think the seller was unaware, so I just let it go.

I have a personal blacklist and gray list...

The most recent transaction that went pear-shaped for me was with a seller who participates on all the forums, but with whom I dealt via Samba. I bought an ignition switch and got a completely different switch in the mail. The seller was out of town and had been using a relative to manage sales. I returned the item at his request and reported the cost of postage to do so. He refunded all. I wouldn't hesitate to buy from him again.

[vintagecarlover]

Aggrimmitt, I understand ur thoughts on return shipping...got that. My question is if part is returned should I be refunded the full amount of my paypal or should seller keep what he charged me for shipping?

Knowi, what I meant by NOT asking for pics after boxed, I mean most common sense people don't question someone's ability to box, and ship an item therefore do not ask for a second set of pics of the item in the box ready to be shipped. I did not say send me pics of what u used for packing and final pics of the package as being shipped.?? Like I don't trust anyone to box it correctly so show me the box. I don't think that's the norm anywhere. Assume if someone is selling an item that they have common sense enough to pack and ship an item.