valve clearances

[chroma22]

Hi,
Just got a '74 914 2.0L last week, and it's in need of a valve adjustment badly. I have been following the Tech Article on this site which is very good, but I'm having difficulty telling when I have the valve clearance correctly set.

Here's where I am:
1) Found TDC for piston 1 with the 'reach over the tranny and feel the opposite notch' method.
2) Marked the TDC side.
3) Removed valve covers, yep, there are valves in there.
3) Removed retaining nut on piston 1 intake (driver side furthest back, right?) , and moved the screw around a bit to see what would happen.

So here's the problem...in the photos accompanying the article, it looks like the feeler gauge is actually 'between' the screw and what it connects to, is that correct, or does that feeler gauge have a notch in it? Basically, I'm not sure exactly what I'm measuring the clearance between. The feeler 'stuck' in multiple positions, some with the screw almost fully out, and some with it tighter.

These questions may have really trivial answers, and I apologize in advance for my ignorance, but this is the first time I've done anything like this, and I want to get it right.

Thanks in advance for all advice!
Brian

[jkeyzer]

Greetings.

I just finished up my first valve adjustment on my 914 this evening, so maybe I can help.

I was going to add a picture but then I noticed it was for a different type of rocker setup. Oops.

You are trying to put the feeler gauge in the gap between the valve stem and the adjusting screw on the rocker. If you put the feeler in the gap with the screw backed out, then tighten the screw (gently!), at some point you won't be able to move the feeler around anymore. What you want to do is back it off a little, then tighten the nut and re-check to see if you can get the feeler back in without pushing very hard. There should be some resistance and then a mild to medium dragging feel when you draw the feeler through the gap.

In reality the nut usually moves the screw also, so you'll have to loosen it again, tweak the screw a little bit in the direction you want to go (tighter, looser) and then retighten the nut again. Keep doing this until you get it to feel "just right", which is something I am still getting comfortable with!

I hope this helps!
Good luck.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

What he said. You don't generally remove the "jam nut", you just loosen it so you can turn the adjuster. Then the feeler gauge goes in between the adjuster and the tip of the valve. There is no notch in the feeler gauge--what you are trying to do is to ensure that the gap between the adjuster and the valve tip is the same thickness as the feeler gauge.

There is a "feel" for how the gauge should slide in the gap. The first time I adjusted my valves (on an old Honda Accord) I set everything up way too loose. Tons of noise, no power, scared the crap out of me. I convinced an automotively-experienced buddy to stop by and check my work. "Way too loose, Dave. Here, let me set up one for you."

With the example of that one valve, I was able to do the rest. And I never looked back.

--DD

[chroma22]

Thanks to both of you for the replies.
Now I'm wondering if I'm adjusting the correct valve or not.
Unless these things were set up REALLY bad before.
As far as I could tell, there was no initial clearance to measure before loosing the jam nut. I'm adjusting the valve furthest back on the driver's side.

I couldn't get the feeler gauge to slide between the adjuster and the tip of the valve, it always hit the adjuster. Maybe I just needed to back it out even more? Is there any danger for the adjuster coming completely out?

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

The adjuster is simply a screw with no head. You can back it out until it falls out, but it will go up inside the rocker arm before that happens.

I would double- and triple-check the setup, because if the valves are way off it usually means that you're on the wrong cylinder or the wrong valve.

The flywheel notch is up top, and the distributor rotor is pointing at the #1 position (left-front), right?

--DD

[chroma22]

yeah, flywheel notch (big factory notch) is felt through the top of the tranny, rotor is pointing (more or less) to the little 'dash'. It's hard to tell if it's pointing 'exactly' at it, depends on which angle you look at it from. It's very close, in any case.

This diagram could be the cause of my confusion:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/914_valve_adjust/914_valve_adjust_pic22_big.JPG

To me, it means that the valves for piston 1 are the furthest back on the driver's side, but maybe I'm misinterpreting something?

[jkeyzer]

That's correct. If you check the other rocker that you haven't loosened yet, does it rock back and forth slightly? And is the same true for the other rockers as you turn over the engine to cyls 2 3 and 4?

If you have to back the screw out a lot to get clearance there's a possibility that you have hydraulic lifters. If this is the case, a normal valve adjustment can screw up your engine.

I'm not completely sure how to tell if you have hydraulics or not without a lot of work (removing an oil return pipe and stuff) but I have heard that the pushrod will feel "squishy" and you'll have to back the screw out a lot to get any clearance.

[Zeke]

Check the no. on the case. If it starts with GA, you porobably don't have hydraulic lifters and you have a genuine 2.0. Three intake mounting studs on each pair of intake ports is a sure sign. When adjusting valves, most of them should rock back and forth a tiny, tiny bit before starting. If they are too tight or you are on the wrong valve, they will not rock. One way to see if they are generallyset correctly is too look for a valve that is depressed and go to the opposite valve on the other head. When one valve is on the cam lobe, the opposite is on the cam base circle and supposed to be closed and set at .006 cold. I am not necessarily recommending this method of valve adjustment, but some use it.

[chroma22]

Yep, engine number is GA0138...
I'll have to try the rest of these tips tonight and see how it goes.
Thanks for the advice, I'll follow up later.

[jdogg]

Newbie style question - properly adjusted valves should be quiet? Or should there be some tack, tack, tackin' going on?

[M. Hendrix]

Valves go tack-tack-tack, if they are out of adjustment they go clackety-clackety-clackety.

If you are in doubt, adjust them.


M

[chroma22]

ok, I'm about to go nuts...
It seems that there is NO clearance on any of the valves at TDC. I took the piston 1 exhaust adjustment screw completely out, physically pulled the rocker back (moves just a little), and then I can get the feeler gauge in. So it's already super tight, even without the screw. I don't get it. As for the piston 1 intake, I can't move it at all. And it's missing the bolt, which would probably explain all the valve noise.

I checked all the valves, and can't get the feeler gauge between any of them. Any ideas, I'm getting pretty frustrated at this point.
Thanks,
Brian

ps. If anyone is near chicago and knows how to do this...

[scotty914]

okay try checking all the valves and not rotating the engine between if all tight you probably have hydrolic lifters

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

There's something else going on here--hydro lifters will definitely have clearance if you back the screws out all the way.

First guess is that you don't have the cylinders at TDC on the compression stroke. Try the "opposite valve" method. If the intake on the left-front cylinder is open, check the intake on the right-front cylinder. And so on, for the rest of the valves. If that still gives you ludicrously-tight valves, there is some other problem.

You might, for some reason, not have the pushrods seated in the lifters. If you have just had your valve train apart, that could be the case. I wound up using an L-shaped Allen wrench to help with this. I stick the base of the L down the pushrod tube and use it as a fulcrum. Push down on the outer end of the pushrod, and push it in and it will go another ~1/4" into the lifter. Then you have to keep it there while you get the other pushrod also seated and then get the rocker shaft in place and all of that stuff.... Something of a pain, but it has been necessary sometimes when putting my engine back together...

--DD

[anthony]

Chroma, you are checking the valves on a stone cold engine, right?

Also:

3) Removed retaining nut on piston 1 intake (driver side furthest back, right?) , and moved the screw around a bit to see what would happen.

Normally, you just measure the valve before unscrewing anything. If it's in spec you don't touch it. It's also a good idea to measure all your valves and write down the before/after measurements.

[chroma22]

Yeah, engine has been sitting for a few days now, so it's pretty cold. I tried to measure the clearances before I moved anything, but there were no clearances, unfortunately. So nothing to measure. Trust me, I would have loved to say 'Piston 1 was at .00whatever', but it just hasn't gone down like that. Unless I am doing something terribly wrong, and measuring the clearance between the wrong parts, there just ain't any. Just to be clear, I am measuring the clearance between (basically) the top of the rocker arm (where the adjustment screw would come out, if it was turned enough), and the roundish thing that the spring soon follows. That's right, right? Or in a perfect world the adjustment screw and the round part.
On the verge of sending the car to a mechanic(gasp!),
bri

Originally posted by anthony
Chroma, you are checking the valves on a stone cold engine, right?

Also:



Normally, you just measure the valve before unscrewing anything. If it's in spec you don't touch it. It's also a good idea to measure all your valves and write down the before/after measurements.

[scotty914]

not the round thing, in the center of the round thing is the valve stem the round thing is the spring retainer

i wonder if his heads where fly cut or if they did not put the base shims on the cylinders and messed the deck height up

at this point you NEED to pull the rockers and check push rods and at least one lifter to see what you have, luckly you can do this in 30 minutes, DD was right the push rods might not be seating right

if you take off the rockers the pushrod will come right out then pull a pushrod tub and try the old magnetic trick to pull a lifter

didnt some body just have a problem with a lifter ( solid ) seperating and screwing up the adjustment

[chroma22]

Is there any trick to getting the pushrod tube off? I can spin it for days, but can't seem to get it to come out. I guess it's not threaded, since I literally have been spinning and pulling for 1/2 hour or so...
Thanks!

[Zeke]

I forget, was this engine running before all this started? Chroma, yank that tube out straight thru the head. Grab it with a pair of pliers, but don't crush it.

[chroma22]

It was running and idling fine, in fact I drove it about 60 miles before I decided to check the valves. They were (are) really noisy.
I'll try the pliers. I'm going for the record of longest valve adjustment ever.