New 2.0L just got noisy....

Forrest39 · 01-04-2004, 09:08 PM

Howdy,
I have about 1500 miles on a newly rebuilt 2.0 with euro pistons, a webcam 73 and new webcam lifters. I was running great, with plenty of oil pressure, not too much oil temp and reasonable valve clatter. Until.....
the last time I went to start teh car and the valve clatter was almost unbearable. I immediately shut down and parked my nazi go-cart until I could do a valve adjustment. I did that today and found that most valves were just a little tight, but only by a few thousandths, and 1 was loose by about 3 thousandths.
I brought everthing up to .006 intake and .008 exhaust.
The thing is, after starting it up, the same noise was there.... a loud clatter. I cringed and I let it warm up thining it was just cold and would come in to tolerance with a little heat. But no... still noisy.
Here's the baffling part. the clatter seems to go away when the engine is under any kind of load. Oil pressure is 50-70PSI quiet or noisy.
What can I check before tearing the engine apart?
Thanks!
-Kevin

chrisreale · 01-04-2004, 11:15 PM

Sure it's not an exhaust leak?

Forrest39 · 01-04-2004, 11:24 PM

No, definately not an exhaust leak. it's a clatter noise. It still puts out all kinds of power. it doesnt' stumble or have any lack of performance, just a whole lot of noise!
-Kevin

Jake Raby · 01-05-2004, 04:49 AM

Is it valve clatter?

At that stage of the game is when cams go flat. Pop off the valve covers and see how much lash you have.

There are NO good lifters out there these days! The cam will suffer from junk lifters. The lifters that don't go flat have the pushrod cups fall out. The only decent set I have found are from Brazil believe it or not.

Thats why all my engines get ceramic lifters now.

hardflex · 01-05-2004, 06:01 AM

Jake- if you don't go ceramic would it be better to use reground original lifters then?

Also, which is the video I should buy, the #8 from the bug me site?

Thanks in advance

Forrest39 · 01-05-2004, 09:12 AM

actually the sound appears to be comming form the lifters not the valves. what change can I make to prevent the whole thing from eating itself?
-Kevin

Alfred1 · 01-05-2004, 09:23 AM

How come VW could get the cam/lifters right 30 years ago but now no one seems to be able to? Is it really that hard? I mean a lot of original VW motors have 100K + miles on them.

What about the SLR resurface option that aircooled.net offers for the Type 4 lifters they sell?

"We have SLR re-surface, polish, then phosphate the lifter heads. This means the lifter heads are PERFECTLY COMPATIBLE with the Web-Cam camshafts. The problems with aftermarket lifters seems to be fixed when you do this, and our cam warrantee applies if you choose this option!"

mikester · 01-05-2004, 10:49 AM

Who built the engine for you?

Jake Raby · 01-05-2004, 11:08 AM

I have good lifters... was using some of the same lifters that everyone else was TILL I had ONE set go bad...

THEN the company changed them and now the pushrod cups are falling out. Pure junk.

ALL I use now are ceramics- its just not worth the risk otherwise.

Once the cam/lifters start to eat themselves, go ahead and shoot yourself- you are on the way to hell.

With ceramics, those chances are nil.

synthesis · 01-05-2004, 12:37 PM

what exactly are ceramic lifters? Is just the bearing end ceramic or is it the entire unit, and how much are a set of these?

thanks,
dr

Alfred1 · 01-05-2004, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by synthesis
what exactly are ceramic lifters? Is just the bearing end ceramic or is it the entire unit, and how much are a set of these?

thanks,
dr

http://www.lnengineering.com/lifters.htm

synthesis · 01-05-2004, 01:18 PM

got it!

thanks,
dr

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

You still need to check to make sure what the problem actually is...

I would first check the valve clearances again. If they are OK, the lifters/cam might not actually be dying!

Another (very very messy!) thing you can do is put some clear plastic wrap over your timing light, pull a valve cover, start the engine, and use the timing light to look at the rocker arms. They should look stationary in the timing light. If not, then the lifters are possibly bad or the cam gear bolts may have backed off. (You did loc-tite those, right?) You will get oil all over the place doing this, be warned!!

Another check for bad lifters is to pull the rocker arms off of the motor, pull the pushrod tubes and pushrods, and use a magnet to pull the lifters out of the motor. Inspect for any wear--since you used new lifters, you probably shoud not see any wear whatsoever. You may, with luck, also be able to get enough inspection mirrors together to see the cam lobes through the lifter bores. Again, I don't think any wear should be visible on a new cam.

Good luck!!

--DD

DuckRyder · 01-05-2004, 02:15 PM

dropped a seat?

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

If that were causing the noise, you'd see excessive valve clearances. A compression test would also show the dropped seat as excessively low compression on one cylinder.

--DD

sammyg2 · 01-05-2004, 03:03 PM

Are the lifters in a type 4 supposed to turn in the bores as the engine runs?
I know that's how it works in a V8, and the most common reason for lunching a cam/lifters. the lifter sticks in the bore enough that the cam lobe (which is slightly off center in relation to the lifter) causes the lifter to make a slight rotation with every cycle so that the cam lobe doesn't hit the same spot on the lifter every time. That's also the reason to run the engine at 2000 rpm for a while to break in the cam, it throws more oil around and makes sure the cam and lifters get plenty of lubrication as they wear together.
Just wondering........................

Jake Raby · 01-05-2004, 03:07 PM

What lifters were used? I have used them al and know the scoop on them. What color package did they come in?

woodman · 01-05-2004, 05:02 PM

I'd like to hear more on this. I've got the same cam and most likely the same lifters. This exact topic has come up before and it freaks me out.

jkeyzer · jkeyzer's Garage

So the webcam lifters are junk?? This is scaring me. I need to buy a cam and lifters soon.

Edit: I just did a search and read up about all the crap surrounding lifters right now. What the heck is going on?

Side note, what is the most mileage anyone has put on ceramic lifters so far?

Forrest39 · 01-05-2004, 11:15 PM

I can't remember what kind of webcam lifters I bought. I'm pretty sure there was just one kind to get abou a year and a half ago. The engine was assembled by a reputable shop in Santa Cruz. After cutting open the oil filter, I found a bunch of 'shiny' oil. Come to find out it's just assembly lube. No major chunks in the filter though. The shop said to bring it in for a listen, but they thought I just need another valve adjustement. I need to pull the motor to change the trans anyway, so I'll pull the lifters and give them a look as well as retorque the heads and adjust the valves. Thanks for the advice.
-Kevin