engine choice
 

so im looking for an engine for my newly acquired 914...and i know a few things....i want it to be a type IV and i want dual webers....so...what do you think is the best way to go...i want good reliability in the engine. so it either has to be a great rebuild...or this company caught my eye on ebay...alot of you probably have seen these for sale....what do you think about these new production engines as an option for me?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2473391498&catego ry=33615

thanks for any help guys, i appreciate it =]

STAY AWAY FROM THEM! do a search on here and 914club.com for "importmotors" they are BAD news!

spend more and get a better engine. check the classifieds here, and 914club.com... or if you have a healthy budget, get one from Jake Raby (www.aircooledtechnology.com)

what's your budget? there is a NICE 2 liter+ in the classifieds that mikez has... that is money much better spent than import motors

How much are you looking to spend? I have a great 1.8 that i pumped out to a 2L.... 40mm webers, counterwighted crank, 270deg cam, stiffer spings, swivel feet valve rockers, 2L euro spec pistons. 10k on motor, very reliable.

well...im not looking for one just right now...i still need to prep and finish the chassis...but id say the max i will spend on a engine is about 1500 give or take.....can that give me anything good?

with that budget, you are doing it "all" yourself. look for a used running stock motor.

well in that case how much do i need for a good engine...

Welcome to the forum I love
Your inquiry is very common and this is the correct time to consider which motor while other fixes can be done.
Some additional information will be requied.
The first aspect to think about is in what ways you plan to use the car. Everyone wants to start off by preparing their 914 for the 24 hours of LeMans. Let me take some pressure off.
1) Most find the repair/alteration of their 914 part of the enjoyment of having a 914. If this is not enjoyable to you, .... think Miata.
2) Because you will be repairing/altering the car throughout the future, there really is no need to get it just right the first time.
3) 914's are very agile and fun to drive cars. Most seem underpowered. However, that is when compared by street driving standards. Yelp, that Viper is going to beat you to the, "Lane Merges" site on the road. However, put them on an auto cross course, you will frustrate the viper owner and will really hit him when you inquire why he paid $40K and you paid $5K.
4) Is it going to be a daily driver? Rain, Snow, Sleet and Hail? If so, then you want a reliable long living engine, similar to stock, which will be relatively inexpensive to create.
5) What do you think your capabilites are or will be in rebuilding an engine? The 914 engines vary in how complicated they can be. The Type IV, foru cylinder can range from a 1.7L all the way to the 2.3L generating >200BHP. Some want to use the 911 six cylinder. 150-200 BHP with less heat and tuning. Some, including Porsche, placed a 8 cylinder in the engine bay. Yelp, you can get a small block chevy in there, but it does take significant work. Cheap engine, expensive trip getting there.
6) Engine builders. There are some but not even in the same expontenial value of a muscle car or the japaneese(aka ricers). New or used parts are also less common. However, the forums, PP or aka the bird, shoptalkforums.com and 914club is an invaluable source of information. Alot of the guys have BTDT and will provide how to's, where to get the part and sometimes sell or give you the part. That too is a nice part of owning a 914 as compared to others. Because there are not that many engnie builders, most if not all are already know regarding reliability, ease of working with, warranty values etc. As with most, extremely low costs are obtained by less than perfect parts/labor. In fact, personal experience many times are avialable. If you feel uncomfortable discussing this bluntly on the forum, Private messanging or just ringing them up on the phone can be done. Also, depending where you live, meet at the PCA events, swap meets and run to the local resturant (seems hooters attrack several 914 people) can be done.
Phewu. Long post, and others will have their input, but hopefully you will find it useful. Anyway, welcome.
L. McChesney
Toledo

If you don't have any engine at all right now, $1500 will get you a decent used motor. Stock, or close to stock. Look for one with carbs and exhaust, because neither of those is exactly cheap!

If you have a 2.0 engine, $1500 might just be able to get it rebuilt to stock condition--if the heads are not cracked.

If you are doing everything but machining yourself, you should be able to go a little "hotter" on the motor for that budget, but probably not a lot.

If you start with a 1.7 or 1.8, you'll have a better shot at staying in that budget. Or you may have an extra hundred or two to make the motor more zoomy.

$1500 won't buy much for a Type IV or 914 engine, sad to say.

--DD

My $.02. If you ever want to have more than 110HP out of the type IV without regarding it as a grenade (i.e.: pul the pin and wait), save up for a 3.2 Carrera motor. I know the earge to get the car on the road and drive, and its an important one. I'd say if its your first 914, build the 4cylinder and have fun, but if you EVER want more power, hold your horses and save. Nothing is as reliable and has as much power as a '84-89 3.2L Carrera motors (Please hold all comments about the V8's and V6's, i'm a die hard OEM guy, and to me nothing sounds as good as a wound up 6) Change the oil in the 3.2 and you can drive from Baja to Maine and back. But then again, they are a lot of money to fix. Good luck man, L. McChesney, nice post, i wish more people could be more helpful with helping.

I can tell you right now that I'm finishing up a 914 engine for my bug. It's a 1911cc, and should make some pretty exceptional power. I've got, with my Pelican pricing, about $3800 in the motor, cooling system, exhaust, carbs, heads, machine work, etc. It's being built for 75-100,000 miles of fun, and everything's perfect.

By the way, I'd like to thank Otto & Jake Raby for all there patience with me absolutely picking there brains in the quest to assemble the perfect 1911.

Especially Otto, as my engine has been down there the last week or so, and he's taken the time out of his schedule to share with me 30+ years of secrets.

The truth is, you can get whatever you want out of the Type 4, it's all a matter of how much money you're willing to put into it. They're incredibly versatile engines.

Just remember that no matter how much money you put in, shortcuts will cost you, in the form of cost and labor for rebuilds and repairs.

Good luck, and let us know what you decide. And be sure to get some parts from the bird baby.

Jason, I have the same motor in my 71 Super Beetle. I love it. It runs really strong. On the freeway it will do over 100 mph in a hurry!. The only thing is that I'm running valves that are too big for the motor IMO (48x38). But it has great torque, and revs to 6K without any problems. I know that this motor would be nice for my 914 also. Good luck with your Beetle!!

Eddie.

Thanks, I'm running an 86 webcam, 44x38's, Weber 44's, and 9:1 CR. I'll find out how fast it is in 9 days. What kind of acceleration do you get out of your Bug? Any ET's recorded? Let me know.

PS- Sorry for hijacking.

Hi. I didn't mean to hijack the thread either. I haven't timed the car yet (maybe I'll do that soon). I would say that the car is in the low 16's, but that's just a guess. I'm running a 3.88 r&p with tall tires. European E grind, 48x38, 9 to1, 40 IDF's with 34 vents. I can tell you that the front end of my Super wants to lift through the gears. I can down shift from 4th into 3rd at 70, and take it to 83-85 easy. It's fun though...

here's a pic: http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eduardobrown/index.html

Take care,

Eddie.

Better do a budget on the engine build. Fat has a catolg, PP sells some stuff and Jake Raby's site gives you total kit prices, which give you a sense of the total cost. Of course he has a reasonable profit built in, and is also charging for getting the parts to fit and work right together. Might be easy for him, but it's no small undertaking for an amateur. Fun to do it yourself, but lots of time, head scratching and of course the risk is yours.
$1500? Are you talking about just the short block or the complete engine? Greg at FAT told me that you could count on having $1500 in the heads to start for a performance motor. BTDT. As Dave said, exhaust and induction cost bucks too, as does ignition if you are going to upgrade it much. I concur with Dave that 1500 might do a stockish short block depending on the head work. (price those sodium-filled exhaust valves lately?) A used, complete engine is the best bet at that price. If you have nothing now, get a 1.8 or 2.0 as a core for your later, better motor. These guys selling used hot rod motors are unlikely to get their money out if they did it 'right' (sorry guys) - they are insuring your gamble, so that's a great opportunity if you trust the motor.
Having done it, I'd bet that if you try to rebuild one, you'll either blow the $1500 budget or regret the corners you cut later when you've forgotten the sting of the resto cost and go to do the engine again.
I'm still dialing in mine. I didn't go nuts on it (2056cc) assembled it myself and might have spent about $3k, (the best parts and machining, but some great parts deals) I could look up what it cost.
Just getting the hang of tuning the webers now, what a breakthrough the first time you get it nearly right! Amazing little machines.
Feels strong and smooth, great fun, no regrets. Doesn't feel like a bus any more.
Good luck!
Dave

yep, also look into local shops... a local shop quoted me 3500, another quoted 4000... the parts from aircooled .net and the machining would have been around 3000... you can find good deals, but they are few a far between... I watched for over a year and finally a friend let me know of his friend who had a rebuilt motor... it was rebuilt and a screaming deal at 2000! if you watch for a year, maybe more, you may get a good deal too... they can be had, if you are patient...
this time of year though...you can almost forget it... even core motors are going for more because auto-x season is upon us, people want to get out and drive... in the winter you may see a few more deals, auto-x-rs retiring their engine(read: needs rebuild bad) and people that are upgrading to a 6 over the winter... etc... point is, you have options... but I still don't think 1500 is a realistic budget... my "budget" was 2x that and I'm CHEAP!

My engines are not expensive...

Take into account the amount of effort that they have built in, the compatibility of parts, and the research each combination has under its belt and you'll start to see that.

If you knew how much I actually make off of an engine, you'd wonder why I'm even in business.... I would not be in business if I didn't love these engines and working from home...

There is absolutely no substitute for the correct combination of parts and labor and machining with a TIV engine. It has been what has set us apart from the rest and made 20% more power than the rest with cooler temperatures and better gas mileage....

If it is cheap, there is a reason and YOU WILL find that reason in just a few miles in most cases... I have seen engines with 500 miles on them come to me and be totally worthless even for a core...

You don't hear bad things about our work for a reason.... Do your homework thoroughly and you will be calling me at some point-

jake...could you email me some more info on your engines? AxCxNJ@hotmail.com thanks

and thanks to everyone for replying... here it is straight up... im 17 and in love with cars..mainly porsches...so i sacraficed lunch at school and worked my but off to buy myself a daily driver and a project car (actually 2...ive got a parts 914 also) so yeah...im starting out...my parts 914 has a 1.7 in it with a single carb...i guess i could resort to that if i absolutely had to..but my idea was to take that engine out and fiddle around with it just to learn on...

im looking for at least 100 hp out of a type IV i know i cant get too much more...but iwant something reliable...this car wont be a daily driver, but eventually it will be an autocrosser every once in a while..so it doesnt have to be full on race...just something reliable that i wont have to dump tons of money into the minute after i get it...thats why im looking for a really good rebuild or a new production engine...and im willing to pay what it takes...so thanks for all your advice..and i know ill keep coming back to this board for more help...but now the pondering begins again
-Aaron

Jake's engines are the Mecca of type IV... IMHO they aren't expensive, you get what you pay for... you want the best type 4 I've ever heard of... Jake's the bomb! dyno numbers don't lie and there have to be hundreds of his type 4s in bugs, busses, and 914s all over the country... yet I've never heard complaints about his engines(aside from that one crazy-assed bastard on Shop talk forums and germanlook...right jake? ;) )

Yep, that guy freaked out and shot himself.....

There is no substitute for research and experience, and thats the big difference in what we do over the rest...

so how much do i need to save for one of your engines?