Well, to get back to vortex's question...I have a 2.0 that I had a local engine builder balance, he put a carb webcam with the matching springs and lifters, euro pistons, bigger valves on the heads, lightened the flywheel, I am running 44 webber carbs with a compufire and MSD ignition...and the car kicks ass...haven't dyno'd it yet but I should be putting out somewhere between 130-140hp - I can hang with my friends 99miata(140hp) for sure. And I make my dads stock '75 9142.0 FI look sick when we pull away from the line ;P

The builder has 20 yrs experience building bettle and type 4 engines...and he said that 140hp was doable with out getting too radical. Needless I have been happy with the results thus far :P

I hope this helps,

Tony
74 2.0

What is the jetting you are on the 44's.Steve

Tony (Cha914),

Your engine sounds exactly like the type I would like to build for my 914, presently a 1.8. Could you be more specific about the engine specifications (eg valve sizes, type of cam, etc...)

Thanks

"I haven't dynoed it yet" is the catch to claims of hp. I do think you can get there (120to 130hp) running 96mm P&C's, 48x40 valves in ported and polished heads, Webcam 86 cam w/ matching lifters, a carefully balanced engine (all spinning parts), Weber 44's and professionally tuned. This is raw hp not dynoed hp which is measured at the rear wheels. My experience of a 2.0L motor running 96's,stock Djet FI, 42x38 valves with professional porting & polishing heads,balanced, 2.0L SSI HE's and seat of the pants tuning is a dynoed 92 hp/torque 108ftlbs. Now that translates to about 105 to 110 raw hp. So with a carb and cam to match, bigger valves you should get to that 120 to 130 hp figure. I would love to see people post their dyno results from their different motor setups. That would be interesting to see what actually improves these motors instead of the "seat of the pants claims".
Geoff
76 914 2.0L
(My car can also keep up with Miata's)

Sorry I haven't been checking the posts latley...been spending too much time on the car :P
I will try to answer some questions:

Steve: I am sorry I don't know the jetting on my carbs because I wasn't the tuner, but I will be doing some tinkering with them in the near future and I can check that for you if you are still interested...

Brunofski: I don't know the exact specs on the engine as far as the valve sizes go, the cam is a webcam and I could get the numbers on it for you if you want...as far as the rest I know the flywheel was lightened about 5-7lbs. not alot but better than none (he said he could shave 12lbs. but it would be alot of $$$)The car has euro pistons, and was balanced...basically what I did was take the 2.0 parts to a trusted engine builder and tell him what I was looking for and he did all the dirty work, as I can pull the engines out but not build them ;P My advice would be to ask around and find a good man near you to do the same...that is unless you are capable of doing the work yourself...in which case you are a better man than I.

Geoff: You are absoulty right, it is a "seat of the pants claim", however, I did have a man build the motor with a history with these engines who had pulled these numbers before (the numbers that you agree with)...so the claim is not totally unworthy...regardless of the numbers, I feel that singnificant gains have been made using proved methods and that is what I wanted to share. And the minute I dyno the car I will post the results, although, it probably won't be any time soon, as I am having too much fun enjoying the feeling from the seat of my pants http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/tongue.gif

Yours,

Tony
74 2.0L

BTW, Geoff, there are two kinds of dynos. There is a "chassis dyno", which is the one you refer to. That's where you park the car on a test rig, with the drive wheels over a set of rollers. The torque and power is measured by how fast your wheels spin up against a known resistance. This one measures the power including all drivetrain losses.

The other type of dyno is an "engine dyno". That's where you bolt up the engine to the test rig without the rest of the car. It's more involved, since you have to rig up electrical connections and fuel supply, etc. But it measures the power at the flywheel, not after the drivetrain losses. The "BHP", or "Brake Horse Power" numbers you see quoted are usually from this kind of dyno. The "Brake" comes in because the engine works against a mechanical brake which tries to slow it down. The amount of work the brake has to do to keep the engine at a given speed is directly related to the amount of power or torque the engine is making at that speed.

Just a little bit of clarification. I may be off on the details of the engine dyno, but I'm pretty sure I've got the general concept.

Chassis dynos are much easier to use, because you simply drive the car in, hook it up, and go. That's why most of the figures for HP numbers for modified engines come from this kind of dyno. To relate them to engine HP numbers, there is an assumed "drivetrain loss" figure that is used. It is generally between 8% and 20%. You can see how that number can be manipulated to make a set of modifications more or less worthwhile...

--DD

Tony: Thanks for coming back.

General: As I said I have a standard 1.8 with FI and four tip Monza exhaust (Uck!). The engine runs great and pulls surprisingly well but I want more oomph! (as we over here in the UK) and I have questions ... many, many questions...

I have got hold of a 2.0 Type IV van engine from which I think I can use the crank and rods, is this right and is this all I should keep?

I would like fit Webers on the new engine but it seems there are big trade offs with FI. Incidentally, I have Webers on my Abarth 130TC, a European hot hatch with and 'Abarth-ed' twin cam fiat engine and they work fine so what are the problems on a 914?.

What is the difference in power characteristics between the Monza and Bursch system?

Does a performance FI system cost a fortune? Does anyone have experience of this?

Is there a book/pamphlet/article on tuning Type IV's? All the books deal with performance tuning everything but (believe me I've got them all) or is a good engine guru or company I can talk to?

Sorry to throw so many questions but this site (thanks Pelican) is a font of wisdom compared to the information desert here in the UK. Before you write I know there are some good people here, but they are far and few between and can be moody 'artistes' and/or expensive.

Thanks,

Bruno

> As I said I have a standard 1.8 with FI and four tip Monza exhaust (Uck!)....

> I have got hold of a 2.0 Type IV van engine from which I think I can use the
> crank and rods, is this right and is this all I should keep?

You can use them, and that's probably all you need from the Vanagon engine. The cylinders, if OK, would also work, but the pistons have lower compression and are not suitable. So you'd need new pistons, and they seem to be just as easy to buy with the cylinders as without. Anyway, those and the stock 2.0 P&C kit (94mm diameter) would give you stock 2.0 diaplacement, 1971cc. Going with a 96mm P&C kit would give you 2055cc.

> I would like fit Webers on the new engine but it seems there are big trade
> offs with FI. ... what are the problems on a 914?

They are mostly caused by the fact that the 914 was not intended to have carbs on it. So you wind up having to replace the fuel pump, improvise how the pump is wired, improvise something for the crankcase ventilation system, the fuel vapor recovery system, and so on. Couple that with the fact that the commonly-available Webers don't have any provision for warm-up, and that as supplied they are jetted wrong for a 914 motor, and that the 914 motor was designed with the idea that FI was going on it, well.... You see the tradeoffs?

> What is the difference in power characteristics between the Monza and
> Bursch system?

The Monza is supposed to be worse for power than the stock muffler. The Bursch is supposed to be a little bit better than the stocker. If your car is a 75, you can get a reasonably significant boost by backdating the exhaust to the 70-74 style. 1.7, 1.8, 2.0, it doesn't really matter which--as long as the heat exchangers, muffler hanger, and muffler are either all 2.0 stuff, or not 2.0 stuff.

> Does a performance FI system cost a fortune? Does anyone have experience of this?

Maybe not a fortune, but they are usually pretty expensive. You can check out places like http://www.sdsefi.com , [http://www.cbperformance.com[/url], and any others you can find. They're not cheap. The SDS is supposed to be one of the least-expensive, and it's still a good bit of money. (And it essentially is a programmable version of the 1.7's D-jet FI, but with more modern components.)

--DD

Dave, I know that there are 2 types of dyno's, but thanks for the explaination. Most of us don't have access to a engine dyno just the chassis type. I have seen all the engine dyno results when a magazine does a feature on a place like "Fat". I guess I was making the point about taking a car in to get some real hp numbers from a dyno. Now that helps everyone reading about your car and what you have done to the engine. I read all the time on these different lists of hp claims, heck I remember before I rebuilt my engine trying to figure out what really did work to produce hp. I know what I did when I built mine and know the actual hp results. The car is a blast to drive! Now when am I going to put on that turbo....
Geoff
76 914 2.0L