Bad paint experience. How to repair?

[olav_a]

I just got my car back from a place that billed themselves that can do:

"High Quality Partial & Full Restorations "

And:

"can handle all your metalworking and interior needs. And our partnership with x offers the highest quality paint and bodywork"

But, now after five days, the paint on the rear valance and rocker panels is bubbling off.

What would cause the paint to bubble off?

Can I do anything to repair their work or do I have to get it repainted from scratch?

I tried to talk to the painter about another problem and he said to bring the car back and he would just charge me more for fixing that problem so I don't think he is going to help out here either.

That's why I was wondering if I could do some kind of repair work on it.

[nine_one_4]

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp/smallclaims/scbasics.htm

[j.collins]

Sorry, to hear of misfortune, the problem you are describing is typically the result of solvent evaporation, when a car is being prepped and painted right ,various stages take place,- removel of original bad paint, rust removal/conversion, filler application, spot putty, priming, sanding, more priming, and finally topcoating.In todays fast paced business world typically all of these steps are performed back to back,with little or no time in between, resulting in the solvent used to thin the primer and solvents in the other chemicals becoming trapped underneath the finish film of the topcoat, then attempting to evaporate and becoming trapped as a gas/air bubble. this fast pace can cause other issues as well, body filler is a polymer which upon cure, will shrink appx 2-4%, if it is primed and finish sanded before a 36 - 72 hour period, you could end up with "sand scratches", minute lines or scratches under your final paint coat.
Unfortunately, you have no easy way out, the bubbled panels need to be taken back down to the filler, re- spot puttied ,wait , prime, wait, sand, and top coat.
Some guys will tell you ,these issues are not an issue anymore due to the advent of catalized 2 part products in current use, but be assured if you follow my advice you will get a better finish every time.

Been laying down color for 30 years, Joe

[olav_a]

Originally posted by j.collins
Sorry, to hear of misfortune, the problem you are describing is typically the result of solvent evaporation, when a car is being prepped and painted right ,various stages take place,- removel of original bad paint, rust removal/conversion, filler application, spot putty, priming, sanding, more priming, and finally topcoating.In todays fast paced business world typically all of these steps are performed back to back,with little or no time in between, resulting in the solvent used to thin the primer and solvents in the other chemicals becoming trapped underneath the finish film of the topcoat, then attempting to evaporate and becoming trapped as a gas/air bubble. this fast pace can cause other issues as well, body filler is a polymer which upon cure, will shrink appx 2-4%, if it is primed and finish sanded before a 36 - 72 hour period, you could end up with "sand scratches", minute lines or scratches under your final paint coat.
Unfortunately, you have no easy way out, the bubbled panels need to be taken back down to the filler, re- spot puttied ,wait , prime, wait, sand, and top coat.
Some guys will tell you ,these issues are not an issue anymore due to the advent of catalized 2 part products in current use, but be assured if you follow my advice you will get a better finish every time.

Been laying down color for 30 years, Joe

Thanks Joe for the great information.

BTW, thanks for the insight into the "sand scratches" because I have them too on the fenders that were painted along with other defects.

I was afraid that there was no easy solution to fix the problem short of just starting over.

It was an expensive learning experience.



nine_one_4:

Thanks for the pointer, I'll consider that in light of this new information.

I'll have to dig up some expert witnesses.



Thanks again.

[SirAndy]

Originally posted by olav_a
I tried to talk to the painter about another problem and he said to bring the car back and he would just charge me more for fixing that problem so I don't think he is going to help out here either.

BS!

you didn't ask for repair, you asked for *additional* work done for free because of the problems you have with the paintwork.

the painter stands behind his work and has no problem correcting flaws, if there are indeed any.

you refused to bring the car back to him so he could have a look at it and instead threatened him with legal actions.

you also canceled the check for work done and then decided to send another check for 3/4 of the money agreed on, some 5 days later, so you already accepted a rebate for your perceived problems on a otherwise great deal ...
Andy

[olav_a]

Originally posted by SirAndy
BS!

you didn't ask for repair, you asked for *additional* work done for free because of the problems you have with the paintwork.

the painter stands behind his work and has no problem correcting flaws, if there are indeed any.

you refused to bring the car back to him so he could have a look at it and instead threatened him with legal actions.

you also canceled the check for work done and then decided to send another check for 3/4 of the money agreed on, some 5 days later, so you already accepted a rebate for your perceived problems on a otherwise great deal ...
Andy

You are a petty, stupid individual and should just shut up and go back to the 914club.com where you can be your ******* self.

[tod914]

Sorry about your misfortune there. But, you should give the shop the opportunity to correct any mistakes prior to seeking other avenues.

[olav_a]

Here you can see the rear valance wasn't even painted correctly. At the top the primer is still exposed.

Note the bubbles.



More bubbles.



Side rocker panels with bubbles.




I can't photograph the other panels well enough to show how the job was crap. But I'll show a pick of the paint match.

[olav_a]

Originally posted by tod914
Sorry about your misfortune there. But, you should give the shop the opportunity to correct any mistakes prior to seeking other avenues.

I did believe me I did.

All I go was excuses and I'm not alone.

Here is another person that got ripped off and told me:

Let me guess. Brandon did your painting?

He did my car too and I was expecting more professionalism.

I have many flaws and over sprays too. He charged me exta to pain the valences and rockers and do a rub-out (which left all my rubber pink stained.)

Mark needs to distance himself from this guy.

When I picked up my car from Mark (never actually met Brandon in person), he was making excuses for the guy's half-assed work. If I wanted Earl Scheib quality, I would have gone to Earl Scheib and paid less!

Someone paid him 20K to do a ground-up Jag and now he thinks his :stromberg: don't stink.

Trust me we aren't alone.... several other club members have had unfavorable experiences.

Maybe we're all had unrealistic expectations

Mark drummed up business for Brandon.

Brandon didn't even meet me at the delivery, nor was he there for the pick up.

Brandon did a half-assed job (aka the amount of effort he felt the nominal amount of money was worth) and left Mark to defend his work.

I couldn't believe Mark even started to explain the imperfection I was inspecting when I picked up the car ?! Oh that's a fish-eye, it happens when... Then my dad (who was helping with the pick-up) said to let it go. (To him, it is a great cheap paint job).

But still.... I didn't expect fish-eyes and bubbles and pink rub-out residue on my rubber and in all the cracks.

And I figured when I asked for fresh top coat it included the rockers and valences. Not to mention some professional pride in the effort...

For $1,000 more I could have gotten someone closer to do the work that cared more about the finish. Live and learn, Brother! You get what you pay for most of the time....

[KWales]

Olav,

I'm on the sidelines and don't know the answer to this. Been to your blog and read about a lot of body work being done recently.

Can you please describe exactly what work was done and how much you paid for it.

Your blog describes:
- two sail panels needing rust removal work to be done,
- new sail vinyl installed both sides,
- a "mauled" wheel arch needing repairs from your lowering,
- a "crinkle" in front of the rear bumper needing to be fixed,
- fix front hood area paint chips by front passenger/headlight thing and drivers side by windshield.
- Modify rear valence- first beat into shape, modify with mesh, fill holes, and special request to finish inside of valence
- and there was some painting and custom color matching to match the current color (faded?)
- Paint the rockers
- Paint the front valence

I have heard that you paid somewhere between $1500- $2000 for some or all the above.

If somebody did the above, that is one value received for the money.

If somebody did less, you got less value.

So, what exactly did you receive for yer money.

Thanks,

Ken

[Joe Bob]

Your beyoitch is about VALANCES? What kind of fuchedup concour weenie are you?

BTW...stopping a check for services is illegal. I hope the painter files charges with the District Attorney.

You should have taken other avenues to resolve this issue.

[KWales]

Oh, yeah,

Forgot to ask. Did you ever paint your valences and rockers with rustoleum? Did the PO?

They use fish oil for rust preventative. From the Rustoleum site
"There's a high-seas adventure story behind the creation of Rust-OleumŽ coatings. A Scottish-born sea captain, Robert Fergusson, noticed that when raw fish oil spilled on rusty metal decks, corrosion stopped spreading.

This observation inspired the Captain to create the world's first rust-preventive paint. But it wasn't easy. After settling in New Orleans, Captain Fergusson spent years of painstaking (and smelly) research in an attempt to formulate a fish-oil-based paint."

I worked on spacecraft and aircraft and the PHD specialist in glues and coatings always told us that the fish oil would ruin any paint job- no matter how well you cleaned it. I did ask how and apparently it wicks into pores in the metal.

So, any rustoleum on your car valences? That might be the problem.

Ken

[olav_a]

Originally posted by KWales
Olav,

I'm on the sidelines and don't know the answer to this. Been to your blog and read about a lot of body work being done recently.

Can you please describe exactly what work was done and how much you paid for it.

Your blog describes:
- two sail panels needing rust removal work to be done,
- new sail vinyl installed both sides,
- a "mauled" wheel arch needing repairs from your lowering,
- a "crinkle" in front of the rear bumper needing to be fixed,
- fix front hood area paint chips by front passenger/headlight thing and drivers side by windshield.
- Modify rear valence- first beat into shape, modify with mesh, fill holes, and special request to finish inside of valence
- and there was some painting and custom color matching to match the current color (faded?)
- Paint the rockers
- Paint the front valence

I have heard that you paid somewhere between $1500- $2000 for some or all the above.

If somebody did the above, that is one value received for the money.

If somebody did less, you got less value.

So, what exactly did you receive for yer money.

Thanks,

Ken

Sure Ken.

I paid $4,000.00 for everything in the list except paint (edited to say: complete list is on my blog).

1,500.00 on top of that for the crappy paint job.

[olav_a]

Originally posted by mikez
Your beyoitch is about VALANCES? What kind of fuchedup concour weenie are you?

BTW...stopping a check for services is illegal. I hope the painter files charges with the District Attorney.

You should have taken other avenues to resolve this issue.

Go back to 914club.com you village people wannabe.

You're just a knob and dork who has more power than brain cells.

[olav_a]

Originally posted by KWales
Oh, yeah,

Forgot to ask. Did you ever paint your valences and rockers with rustoleum? Did the PO?

They use fish oil for rust preventative. From the Rustoleum site
"There's a high-seas adventure story behind the creation of Rust-OleumŽ coatings. A Scottish-born sea captain, Robert Fergusson, noticed that when raw fish oil spilled on rusty metal decks, corrosion stopped spreading.

This observation inspired the Captain to create the world's first rust-preventive paint. But it wasn't easy. After settling in New Orleans, Captain Fergusson spent years of painstaking (and smelly) research in an attempt to formulate a fish-oil-based paint."

I worked on spacecraft and aircraft and the PHD specialist in glues and coatings always told us that the fish oil would ruin any paint job- no matter how well you cleaned it. I did ask how and apparently it wicks into pores in the metal.

So, any rustoleum on your car valences? That might be the problem.

Ken

Nope, I didn't paint anything except the front valance and I didn't use rustoleum. I used Krylon.

The other panels were stock.

[Joe Bob]

Originally posted by olav_a
Go back to 914club.com you village people wannabe.

You're just a knob and dork who has more power than brain cells.

Plan to...BTW, you've been suspended.

[olav_a]

Originally posted by mikez
Plan to...BTW, you've been suspended.

That just proves my point. Say something the admins don't want to hear at the 914club.com and the cronies come out and bann the you.

Reminds me of someone who started WWII except gay.

[SirAndy]

Originally posted by olav_a
You are a petty, stupid individual and should just shut up and go back to the 914club.com where you can be your ******* self.

i rest my case ...

from your other post:
"I don't use that kind of derogatory language"

yes, i can see that. clearly ...

if this is how you "communicated" with the painter, i am not surprised you haven't been able to work something out with him.

in fact, if memory serves me well, this is not the first time you threatened a vendor with legal actions.

i remember at least two other recent instances where you refused to pay a vendor *after* services rendered ...
Andy

[SirAndy]

Originally posted by olav_a
I paid $4,000.00 for everything in the list except paint.

maybe you should also mention that the above list is incomplete ...

something you said earlier about "facts" and such ...
Andy

[olav_a]

Originally posted by SirAndy
i rest my case ...

from your other post:
"I don't use that kind of derogatory language"

yes, i can see that. clearly ...

if this is how you "communicated" with the painter, i am not surprised you haven't been able to work something out with him.

in fact, if memory serves me well, this is not the first time you threatened a vendor with legal actions.

i remember at least two other recent instances where you refused to pay a vendor *after* services rendered ...
Andy

You are a very stupid person and a liar andy. You listen to 1/2 a conversation and you think you know everything.

You have NOTHING to do with this your just a busy body with nothing else to do except defend cheats and liars.

Go back to your facists friends at the 914club.com and dream up more fabrications.