125 HP from 914-2.0

[bud]

I have a 73 914 2.0 . I want to know if it is possible to get 125hp out of it and keep F.I. what do i need ,Euro pistons, header,cam, fly wheel.Pleas inform.
Thanks

[oredith]

I have the same engine in my car. I talked to a guy at the last pomona swap meet that manufactures 94mm bolt on pistons that supposedly puts out 130 on the dyno. I've got to dig up the brochure he gave me, but i'll let you know as soon as i find it

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

The people in one of the local classes (P-production, for you PCA zone 7 folks) like to say that they are getting 130 HP out of their four-bangers with the stock FI. I don't know if they are really getting that much out of it, but it doesn't sound like its out of the question.

Bp-allowed mods include a 0.5 boost in compression ratio. That means Euro P&Cs and then a little teeny bit more. They can use any ignition system that goes through the stock distributor. They can use any exhaust. They can also use the full range of adjustment for anything on the car--like the ignition.

The Pete Weber headers or Kerry Hunter headers, plus a high-flow muffler or a set of Supertrapps, are a good way to go with the exhaust. The K&N filter *might* give you a bit--ditching the stock air cleaner and mounting a cone filter over the throttle body might help a bit more at the top end. (Have to do something about all the vacc hoses though.) The compression certainly helps. A hi-po ignition and wider plug gaps might get you a smidgen. A little here and a little there can work you up to the neighborhood you want.

Chances are reasonable that you'll have to do some tweaking to the stock FI to get the most out of the changes, though. An air:fuel meter (DIY like in the Pelican article, or buy one from CB Performance, etc.) can help, but dyno time is probably better.

A mild cam will get you some top-end at the cost of a little bottom-end. The FAT HP440 grind has quite a few fans.

A light flywheel will not get you any power, but it will help the engine "spool up" and back down again more quickly. It can also make the launch from a stop a bit more tricky, and may tend to let the engine stall more easily when you push in the clutch and let off the gas.

Hey, if you're willing to take the compression up to 9.0:1 and run super unleaded mixed with race gas, you can probably get the power pretty easily!

Of course, engine life will suffer some with any real increase in power--but it should be fun!

--DD

[JP Noonan]

From Bob Hoover and Tom Wilson, most VW motors can gain 5-10% right off the bat by being balanced and blueprinted. Bob is a little fanatical about it, he takes his motors to a shop that balances aircraft engines. No doubt though that balancing the whole assembly (including fan and even the pressure plate) helps with power. As does making sure all the mesurment are on the happy side of spec. Balanced power from each piston, each cam lobe is the same lift and duration, timing the cam. Next to exhaust and a cam I would go for head work, not just big "honking" vavles (won't work with the FI if taken too far) but having some flow bench work done by a VW experienced shop. match all the combustion chambers within a cc or so, unshroud the vavles, port match, polish, etc. A balances/blueprinted engine makes more power because it is not fighting unbalanced reciprocating weight and bad harmonics, it also has less friction to overcome.

As far as the stock FI goes, if you want more power than it was designed for then it will need tuning. Dave is absolutely right about A/F meters and dyno time, the injectors may need to be bumped up a size, the stock fuel pump "may" be too small, the MPS will need tweeking.

I dunno, after all I've read about Bosch FI in general (as well as EEC-IV speed density and mass airflow Ford FI) I'd like to think the stock FI could make the adjustment. However, I think that most 110+ hp motors have carbs for the simple reason they are simpler to adjust to a higher output engine. If not simpler they at least have more aftermarket support (is a shop going to sell you 1 hour of dyno time, or try to convince you "crabs are the way to go").

Just some things to think about. I'm not a VW engine rebuilder. I've heard good things about FATS PERMORMANCE in Calf. they make some nasty 914 motors for 914's and off road racing buggies (they built a 2.8 class winner I think). I've heard BAD things about Motor Meisers. Ask Wayne if he has any suggestions, Pelican is good about standing behind there products, maybe they know a shop that does the same. Or go to the races, see what the 914's are running, ask them who they use. Nice thing about Fat's is they have a good catalog (albeit the 98 catalog is a 96 catalog with a 98 sticker stuck on it) and all the main, high performance, engine components can be ordered by mail. Down side, they are expensive on some items.

[J P Stein]

The bottom line always comes down to money.
The power is available in a 2.0L type 4 if the money is there. The limiting factor is the FI.
I know a guy who showed me 8.5k in receipts for stuff for his 914. He had taken the engine about as far as he could go and still retain the FI. It was a VERY nice 2.0L car with all the right things done to it. That convinced me that if one wanted to make a 914 run hard, more motor was needed. If 30 more ponies cost 3/4K to do right, add 3k more and get another 30/40 hp. A six takes the 914 to a different level.
BTW, the guy was tring to sell the car for 8k, not having much luck, and still stuck in the slow lane.

J P Stein

[This message has been edited by J P Stein (edited 05-12-99).]

[bud]

Thanks for the info.The six sounds like the way to go.The only problem is i live in the s.f.(bay area) and the shops here think you have a lot of money i.e labor.What about power plant 2.2,2.4, or 3.0. My budget is 6k any ideas welcome. Thanks

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Depends on what your goals are and how much of the work you want to do yourself.

If you want to sell the car later, you're pretty much hosed no matter what you do. Cars in general make lousy investments. Modified cars usually more so, since it's so easy to spend big $$ on a car that nobody wants but you.

If you want to have fun and go fast, $6K will buy you a pretty nice "Big Four". You won't have all the extra mounting hassles a Six would give you, and you can extract a fair bit of power out of the higher-displacement four-bangers. Check the article on Mike Nugent's 2.4 liter car; there's a link to it on the 914 Tech Articles part of this site. It is putting out well over your 125 HP, and wasn't too hideously expensive from what I hear.

If you're paying someone else to do the work, $6K won't hardly even get you started on a Six conversion. The motor itself will probably eat up most or all of that--particularly if you have to have it rebuilt. I am told that parts to overhaul an SC motor (3.0) run rather over $4K, probably more "list". Oil tank, fuel system, headers, mountings, and all of that will blow the budget right out of the water. And that's if someone *gives* you a motor that "needs some work".

You may be able to pull off a mild small-displacement Six conversion for your $6K. I say mild and small-displacement because you can probably stay with the stock brakes and mostly with stock suspension without the car being dangerous. ("Dangerous" meaning lots of "go", and no "whoa"--or cornering.) But you'd be most likely to stay under budget if you could find a 911 motor in good condition.

Don't discount the four-cylinders, though. For a $6K budget, you can probably get enough out of the motor to have a lot of fun. Don't forget to address the cooling issues, though. An external oil cooler would be a good idea, and making sure the stock cooling system is up to snuff is critical. (The 911 fan setup is supposed to provide better cooling, but it is pretty pricey.)

--DD

[DonNewton]

I've completed all the above. From building a large displacement 4 cylinder (not initially installing the 911-style cooling system), cooking the engine at a San Diego "driver's ed" while chasing a 911, rebuilding it with the 911 cooling system (and external oil cooler), and now with a very strong 2.7 six. Yes, the large displacement 4 was fun! However after 5 years, it got very weak and either needed replacement or rebuild. So, I opted to install a six. This last weekend, I spent 3 days at Mid-Ohio. I cannot tell you how much diference there is in torque and outright horsepower. Top speed has increased in orders of magnitude. The old adage: Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?

[This message has been edited by DonNewton (edited 05-14-99).]

[J P Stein]

My nickel again.
Every authorative source I have read (they also weren't tring to sell something),says that over 130 hp the type 4 case starts moving around and the heads get so hot as to lose their strength(one might drop a valve seat). Neither one of these conditions contribute to longevity of your motor.
Yeah, 180/200 hp can be had and racers do it. They also carry a spare "hand grenade" in the trailer.
6K will get you a big number on the dyno(all at the top end) and it will do the Baja 1000....once(and still sound like a tractor).
I looked at the pros and cons very carefully (I'm not made of money)and decided to spend the cash on what I concluded was a sure thing(a 911 6) rather than some sales hype.

J P Stein

[nineonefour]

if you want some decent HP I saw an ad in Excellence Magazine placed by a company who was offering 140HP from the 2.0L they were selling entire engines for $2995 w/1 year warranty I think that that is the best way to go.
I will post the add when I find it

[bud]

Well guys,If you talk about economics, i think that doing a six is way out there big bucks$$$$$,When you look for a motor that's worth any thing is gone cost around 5 grand for a 3.0 maybe 200hp then you need all the conversion kit add another $3500 that's 8 grand and you buying a used motor.So i was wondering about a 350 v8 conversion.Motor stock new is $1500 new with all components, kit from renegade around $1500, so what you get is around 210hp for around $3500.granted you have to cut the front end a bit but you have to do the same if you run the oil cooler up front on a 3.0 conversion.Economicly for me it sounds like more hp, less money.My 2 cents