Dry Sump Question Type 4
 

Hello,

I'm building a 2.0L Type 4 to use in my '68 912 project [oe motor was missing].
I'd really like to dry sump this engine.

My question is: Can I dry sump a motor that originally relied on oil splash for lubricating its wrist pins and cyl walls/rings?

914-4 owners have had good results with dry sumping. I'm a little worried about the lack of splash with a true dry sump'd Type 4 engine.

Thanks, -Matt

My opinion is there's definitely enough splash from the con rod big end to lubricate the wrist pins and cyl walls.

Next question; I know of the Auto-Craft and Pauter dry sump pumps, is BUGPACK still making theirs?

Try some searches on posts I made when I had the big 4 in my 914 and it had a dry sump. It is NOT an easy or cheap project but if you want the engine to last a long time then it is the way to go. It ends up being like a 911 six cylinder oil setup and we had something like this:
- Sump cover with -16 suction to multi stage pump scavenge side (Autocraft).
- High pressure to oil inlet channels to the engine.
- Exit from engine supply to -12 lines to front oil cooler.
- -12 lines from front oil cooler to oil filter then return to the aftermarket oil tank.
- -16 line from oil tank to inlet side of the pressure supply pump.

Since the 3 stage Autocraft pump runs off the cam shaft the stock type 4 fan and housing have to be replaced by a 911 alternator/fan/shroud but you get great air cooling.

The scavenge side pump has higher capacity than pressure side so at high RPM's there is a vacuum in the crank case so oil leaks are minimized.

Note that the dry sump pump is longer than the original pump, and it will interfere with the fan shroud. If you're doing an upright conversion, that shouldn't be an issue, but make sure it won't interfere with the rear body work or muffler!!

I have never heard of wrist-pin or cylinder lubrication problems with a dry-sump setup. That said, there was an official VW TSB that recommended putting a notch in the big end of the con rods to direct some oil from there out to the back of the piston.

Here is a copy of the bulletin.

So that should help with the splash lubrication.

Note that, if you are worried, you can skip that step and just add piston squirters to the oil system. I believe you can use 911 ones, but you will have to get pressurized oil to them of course. It has been done before, so you know it can be done...

--DD

John, I have come across many of your posts on this subject, thank you for your advice. When i get closer I'll likely need more.

Dave, thanks great advice also..

My Type 4 is set up for upright cooling. Est. 140 HP, has already been bench run for a 1/2 hour.

I want to use a 911 oil tank [external filler cap too] and two oil coolers, one in each fender like an R, thoughts?..

BTW my 912 "R" tub is coming along nicely.:)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/872485-swb-911-r-build-912-roots.html?highlight=911R+912+roots..
[real work starts around page 6]

Here are my as built T4 engine specs:

2056cc, 71 stroke, 96 bore, 10:1 comp.
H beam rods, total seal rings, Web-cam(494), Scat lube a lobe lifters
JE lightweight wrist pins, Scat deep sump, 914 windage tray, Modified Berg
oil pump cover [pressure relief built in], Modified Berg achiever pulley, Jaycee pushrods, solid rocker
spacers, 1.7 rockers, chromoly rocker studs, dual valve springs and
retainers, Manley spring cups, 44mm intake valves, 38mm exhaust valves,
CB magnaspark ignition system, Treuhaft valve covers and intakes.
Webers

Talk to Web-cam about the cam and lifters. You absolutely MUST have ones that are compatible with each other, or the cam will go flat in a distressingly short amount of time. I recommend getting cam and lifters from the same company. (I've also been suspicious of the idea of putting a hole in the middle of a high-wear area.)

Also discuss the intended red-line with them. An "increased torque" cam probably will not need to rev high enough to require dual valve springs, so heavy-duty singles will likely work.

Hopefully when you say "1.7 rockers", you mean with 911 elephant's-foot adjusting lugs? You'll need to clearance the arms a bit to make room for the adjuster foot.

A dry sump and an extended sump are two different solutions for the same problem. I would ditch the extended sump if you are going dry-sump, as the latter is the better solution.

Make sure your heads can support the flow needed to reach your power/torque/RPM goals. You need someone with experience with 914/VW Type IV heads, because these are noticeably different than Bug heads and respond differently to mods than those do.

--DD

After briefly looking over this post, why not just use the oil trap with the oil pickup extender? I used that setup on my 2.8ltr auto-x car. I ran Avon slicks that would generate some serious G's. I would run on banked ovals occasionally as well. Never had a problem. I did run twin scat oil coolers. Just a thought.

Since setting up a dry sump system is a fairly complicated undertaking, I would suggest running a deep sump while you get the car sorted out and everything working well and at the same time gather the necessary bits and pieces to do the conversion. As much as I hate giving advice I have seen this issue cause many issues so I'd suggest taking it slow and do not skimp on the hardware anywhere. When getting the oil lines I would suggest either 911 style hard lines or Earl's armored flexible hose. If you go with the flex, use 3/4 inch garden hose to lay out the run of the lines and then add an extra foot or two just in case.

Thanks Dave, Bobby and John. Good advice as usual. Sorry i didn't respond quickly.

I'm moving forward with the dry sump system as I would prefer it set up this way.

I know the deep sump i have would keep oil around the pickup tube but it will be aerated oil which is why dry sump is preferred.