bosh 09 distributors

boogerboy72 · 01-22-2003, 05:17 PM

sorry bout all the questions, but i need them answered and you all are pretty intelegent people from what ive read. so here goes

My dad has read that the bosh distributors arent good, can yall give me any info on this?
thanks
clay

Zeke · 01-22-2003, 05:58 PM

That's a generalization to say all Bosch are bad. Some dizzys work better in one application vs. another, like carbs or FI. What is your application? I forgot. The idea has been that the 09 is a little slow on the mechanical advance and dual carbs don't pull enough vaccum to make that feature work while waiing for the RPMs to come up along with the advance. On the other hand, an 050 mechanically comes up on the curve a little faster w/o modification. I have one of each, I plan on putting them to the test before I spring for a Mallory.

douglas robbins · 01-22-2003, 07:32 PM

Boogerboy,

Bosch

I personally have never heard of anything negative, nor had anything but excellent experiences with Bosch products generally. My Bosch distributors have never failed.

009

The 009 has a particularly good reputation for quality and design. That said, I have not heard of anyone using the 009 in their 914. The 009 is a mechanical advance distributor that was/is popular with Type I VW engines (bus/bug/ghia/safari). I owned one in my bus for a while and was pleased. Others will have to confirm whether they have used the 009 in their 914 or not.

Your Sock

But really the more pressing issue is your sock: "Boogerboy." It's really not a good look for you. I think some of the hassle (not all of it, but some of it) you've been getting from the other posters on this board may be coming from the "snot-nosed-kid" vibe your sock, Boogerboy, is giving off. I'm sure you're a nice person but your name really isn't working for you.

Here's your opportunity, on line, to be whoever you want. You don't have to be Boogerboy. You don't have to be that guy.

Douglas

John Rogers · 01-22-2003, 07:45 PM

The Bosch distributors are okay as far as massed produced parts go. The different models are good for their each design intention. 009's are cheap and I use a new one in the race car every 18 months or so as a safety measure so there can be no failures there and I also use a points elimination such as CompuFire. The best setup if you really want to spend the money is either a CompuFire trigger fire unit or some other after market distributor replacement system.

As for the name, I remember when I started reading this boards several years ago there were no names at all it seemed, but I have always used mine as I want the readers to know who I am. I note now that most everyone signs their name at the end of their post, good idea I think.

Kevin Powers · 01-22-2003, 07:55 PM

am i being redundant signing my name and showing it in the poster box?

kevin

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

If you wanna sign your name, go right ahead.

The only virtue the 009 distributor has, IMHO, is that it is cheap (and easy to find parts for). The quality tends to be mediocre at best, and the advance curve is not suited for anything but a race motor that sees wide-open throttle at all times. Some of the Type I guys like 'em, but a Type I is not a Type IV.

The "050" is more expensive and more difficult to get parts for. But it matches the needs of the Type IV motor much better, and has a whole lot more advance built into it. If you go this route, make sure to keep an extra set of points/cap/rotor on hand.

The stock 1.8 distributor has a centrifugal advance curve about like the 050, but also has a vacuum dashpot on it. Some carbs have the fittings for vacuum advance; practically all have a boss that can have a fitting installed for it. Hook that up, and you get a little better off-the-line response, plus generally cooler freeway running and better freeway MPG. You can Tee the advance lines from multiple carbs together if you need a stronger vacuum signal.

The stock 1.7 and 2.0 distributors are OK. Not as much centrifugal advance built in as the 050 or 1.8 distributor, but more than the 009. They also have vacuum dashpots.

Supposedly, the Mallory distributors are the best thing for the Type IV motor since oxygen was invented. (No experience myself.) They tend to be very high quality, and most have vacuum dashpots that can be hooked up as well.

I'd rather have a monkey with a pushbutton initiating the spark on a 914 than a 009 distributor...

--DD

campbellcj · 01-22-2003, 11:05 PM

FWIW I "poked around" a bit about replacing the 009 in my car with an 050 or something else, and decided not to. I guess this makes sense because like John R, my time is mainly spent between 4-6K rpms. Initial advance or low-rpm curve is of pretty little concern.

That said, with my particular engine setup, the car is also pretty streetable (off-idle to 4K) with the 009 -- not to say it wouldn't be better with a different dizzy but it ain't bad as is.

Mike D. · Mike D.'s Garage

I have an 050, never got around to installing it but plan to one day, maybe. Anyway, DAVE, can't a pointless ignition like Compu-Fire be used in an 050?

-Mike D.

ps - I may use it a boat, 4cyl. volvo penta -

Kevin Powers · 01-23-2003, 04:58 AM

have to agree with you chris. i have a compu-fire in my 009 and i love not having to be a contorsionist just to adjust my points.

Ron Meier · 01-23-2003, 05:41 AM

If the advance is slow, change to lighter springs. If the advance curve is to little, file the stop plate for more. Take it to a machine shop with a dizzy machine and have it curved - if your serious.

boogerboy72 · 01-23-2003, 07:21 AM

thanks for all the information.
im begining to understand how it works.
any one know where i can get an 050?
thanks a lot
clay
ps. the whole boogerboy thing, my last name is boger, so i think you can make the connection. ive been called booger sicne i was 4 or 5.

Zeke · 01-23-2003, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ron Meier
If the advance is slow, change to lighter springs. If the advance curve is to little, file the stop plate for more. Take it to a machine shop with a dizzy machine and have it curved - if your serious.

Yeh, I missed an important point brought up by DD and Ron. The total advance is different on the 050. So, Chris, the question is if you have your 09 set up for max advance at high PRM, say 34 degrees at 3500 RPM, then don't you have a little too much static advance for starts?

John Rogers · 01-23-2003, 08:55 AM

Good point Milt, the initial advance is more and that is why some times I get some coughing through the carbs when the engine is real hot and I restart it. It starts fine normally but I also use a MSD box too.

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

You can use a points-replacement gizmo (Compufire, Crane, Pertronix) in the 050 as well as in the 009 or stock distributors. Some of those have different parts that go in the stock distributors to clear the vacuum advance/retard arm on the points plate, but I think the 009 and 050 ones are the same.

You can have a 009 re-curved. Good luck finding a shop that will do it for less than the price of a new 050.

You can buy a new 050 from Pelican Parts, just check the "Ignition" section of the 914 on-line catalog. http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/9144/POR_9144_igniti_pg2.htm#item10
I am also sure that you can get it from most of your favorite VW and Porsche mail-order outfits. But buying from Pelican helps support this BBS, among other things...

--DD

Jared at Pelican Parts · 01-23-2003, 01:39 PM

Doesnt the igniton curve on these distributors need to retard the 3 cylinder slightly for the type 4's?

Scooter311 · 01-23-2003, 02:02 PM

Hi all,
I've got a brand new 009 with a no-name msd ignition and no points in my 1.7. After some fiddling (never done this B-4) I got it running very crisp, with small ict 34's too. I'm new to all this too, and just replaced the old 009 that was in it - I thought it came like that stock? I'm not a racer, but it seems to run really smooth - I might even be able to get a bit more advance out of it too.
I'd say toss one in it to get it running, and then when you can afford a better system go ahead and do it - then you can see for yourself the capabilities and differences between the 2.
Just my 2 cents, but these guys have all the experience, all we can do is learn

Jeff

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

The "009" (no vacuum cannister) is not the original distributor for any car engine that I know of.

None of these distributors, with the possible exception of some really old 009s, has a retard for #3 cylinder. VW did away with that when they went to the "doghouse" cooler setup waaay back when. The Type IV doesn't need it, and never had it.

--DD

johnboy914 · 01-23-2003, 05:34 PM

I had a 009 and switched to an 050 with a compufire gizmo in it. The 050 is better. Smoother acceleration throughout the RPM range. Is it amazingly better? No, but it is better.

Better is good.

Now, does anyone know of a rev limiter for a 050? With a helmut on and a whole bunch of concentration on the track ahead, I have heard a very bad noise. Floaty valve type a' noise. I look down and I have seen 7k rpm. That is too many.

Is an MSD system the only option?

Zeke · 01-23-2003, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by johnboy914

Is an MSD system the only option?

Crane is the other one. I think it's less money and comes standard witha rev limiter.

Ron Meier · 01-23-2003, 09:58 PM

Waaaaal, I gonna use the 009 with the Compufire DIS IX as they told me it would only work with the 009. I figure the initial over advance can be taken care of by longer velocity stack (kinda like swallowing your own barf, charge doesn't get outta the pipe) and 1.8 HP 911 starter.