JohnJ's 87 924S Rehabilitation

[SilverLined]

That suspension is really coming together, John. Sure to handle like it's on rails, especially with the right alignment.

And from a few posts up, your throttle-body rejuve turned out beautifully! I cleaned mine up but am now thinking about a rebuild.

[Stoneguy]

For what it's worth, I did notice a more stabile idle after I installed the new shaft seals on the TB

[jjeffries]

Silver, I think Stoneguy and me found the same thing: the original seals, if anything of them remains, are now virtually powder. So likely any/every one of our cars with a 30+ year old L-Jet or Motronic throttle body would benefit from this refresh. That would be X2 for an early BMW V12 (which is apropos of nothing ...)

John

[Jay H]

John, Add me to the list to the one's who have rebuilt their throttle body with the ArnnWorx rebuild kit. It's easy and satisfying work. My seals were also in poor shape after 31 years...

Best,
Jay

Here's a (cool?) 924S from this years Central PA PCA Swap Meet:

[jjeffries]

Hey Jay, good to hear from you. That is indeed a characterful example. The photo also emphasizes how high Porsche (Audi) set the ride height ... on tippy toes. OR, is that one an exemplar of the new-with-the-cool-kids safari look?

Cheers,
John

[jjeffries]

I took a cool trip yesterday. Since I drove the SC to get there and back (with a close call), I posted it in the 911 section:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1090773-johnjs-82-sc-coupe-ownership-repair-maintenance-experience-3.html#post11324584

Hopefully you’ll find it interesting.

John

[Rasta Monsta]

Originally Posted by jjeffries

The photo also emphasizes how high Porsche (Audi) set the ride height ...

I'll wager my P9201 that someone raised this one...

[jjeffries]

Originally Posted by Rasta Monsta

I'll wager my P9201 that someone raised this one...

Roger that. I looked at it some more and saw that one has its own safari groove-thang going.

John

[TheSecondChris]

John, Looking forward to a forum post describing your maiden voyage in the restored 924! I'm guessing you'll start out with some smaller trips for a while before embarking on any 100+ mile cruises. Chris

[OK-944]

John...I'm close to installing my engine ('87NA944) which I'd rebuilt and subjected to my own (DIY) Sunnen AN-30 paste cylinder refresh...much as I gather has been done on your 924.

So I'm very curious as to how you plan to break in your engine. I've been a bit over the map on this, but my current thinking is as follows:

First Oil Fill: 10/40 Dino (detergent). First Run: 20 minutes high idle (2K RPM). Drain Oil. Reason for detergent oil - help to clean rebuild residue.

Second Oil Fill: 10/40 Dino (non-detergent), possibly with zinc "break in" additive. Second Run: Take it on the road...and do about a dozen aggressive accelerations/decelerations to set rings. Drain Oil. Reason for non-detergent oil - to help promote proper bedding in of rings. Zinc additive just for this run...as this run is aggressive and I want to protect tappets. (Possible change - use straight 30 weight oil for this run?)

Third Oil Fill: 10/40 Dino (detergent). Third Run: 500 miles normal driving. Drain Oil.

Fourth Oil Fill: 10/40 Full Synthetic (detergent). Engine Break In Complete.

So...how does this sound? And what are your break in plans?

Feel free to share comments, and/or to question my sanity. Thanks!

[jjeffries]

Originally Posted by TheSecondChris

John, Looking forward to a forum post describing your maiden voyage in the restored 924! I'm guessing you'll start out with some smaller trips for a while before embarking on any 100+ mile cruises. Chris

Hi Chris, yes that sounds sensible. Life has been getting in the way a bit of late, but one of these days ... No hurry, the project is just my big distraction/jigsaw puzzle anyhow.

thanks,
John

[jjeffries]

Originally Posted by OK-944

John...I'm close to installing my engine ('87NA944) which I'd rebuilt and subjected to my own (DIY) Sunnen AN-30 paste cylinder refresh...much as I gather has been done on your 924.

So I'm very curious as to how you plan to break in your engine. I've been a bit over the map on this, but my current thinking is as follows:

First Oil Fill: 10/40 Dino (detergent). First Run: 20 minutes high idle (2K RPM). Drain Oil. Reason for detergent oil - help to clean rebuild residue.

Second Oil Fill: 10/40 Dino (non-detergent), possibly with zinc "break in" additive. Second Run: Take it on the road...and do about a dozen aggressive accelerations/decelerations to set rings. Drain Oil. Reason for non-detergent oil - to help promote proper bedding in of rings. Zinc additive just for this run...as this run is aggressive and I want to protect tappets. (Possible change - use straight 30 weight oil for this run?)

Third Oil Fill: 10/40 Dino (detergent). Third Run: 500 miles normal driving. Drain Oil.

Fourth Oil Fill: 10/40 Full Synthetic (detergent). Engine Break In Complete.

So...how does this sound? And what are your break in plans?

Feel free to share comments, and/or to question my sanity. Thanks!

OK944: yes, my engine got some expert Sunnen treatment from HondaDustR but then he put ca. 30K miles on it. All I did was pop-off the cylinder head after a moment's madness made me think perhaps I'd f'd it up (I hadn't). So this motor needs no break-in.

That said, I much less intense about this kind of thing than you, and I mean no disrespect in saying that. I did do the full-monty rebuild on my SC's engine and therefore followed break-in protocol on it. There was the first oil/filter change after the first start/breaking in the cams. Then another, maybe around 500 miles. I didn't use any special break-in oil, just 10W/40 Rotella then and for the next couple after that. I only switched to 15W/50 Mobil 1 maybe at around 6K miles because it's so closely priced to dino oil now.

I know this is a source of much disagreement (understatement) but I personally believe using super-duper oils in non-racing air-cooled 911's or 944's is a waste of money. My SC had been fed Castrol GTX all it's like - religiously every 3K mind you - and at 183K miles the main bearings were still like new. (GTX is a run of the mill dino oil.)

Where are synthetics mandatory? In your late model daily driver, for one: today's production engines are not only machined to incredibly tight tolerances, but also use engine oil to maintain turbos and effectively utilize it as hydraulic oil, to actuate cam timing mechanisms and the other fascinating doo-dads that make today's I.C.E.'s so remarkable. The passages in these mechanisms are tiny ... coking in the oil leads to their rapid deterioration. And at the light oil weights required - 0W/20, etc - I believe synthetic recipes are the only to make those possible.

The shorter version: for your 944, don't over-think it; in the words of Bob Marley, "Everything is Gonna Be Alright". And with 15W/50 Mobil 1 with good zinc content selling for ca. $27/5 QTS, I guess we can have our cake and enjoy it, too.

best regards,
John

[jjeffries]

From the desk of promising to show mistakes and well as successes, sorrows as well as joys (for my Quaker friends), here's something I did this week which didn't work.

As SecondChris noted, this car could soon be registered (one hopes) and driven. That said, I still don't have all the interior back in (I have special plans), not even the door cards. They include the power window switches, and a couple of weekends ago when I moved the car outside - under its own steam - the inability to lower the windows bothered me.

The door cards are made of ... like the dash ... something akin to cardboard. At 35 years of age, they are fragile, so I didn't want to pull the switches and use them loose until I'd recolored the cards' vinyl. No, I'd need to get the door cards completed, and installed, the right way, the first time.

But ... there was some age-related damaged to repair first. On the driver's panel, the area where the door handle is attached was damaged and required a repair, as did a screw hole on the upper rear edge.

And ... the passenger door card was in worse shape, with its lower two inches of pressed-board thoroughly compromised due to it obvioulsy having suffered from wet/dampness over the years, an issue created by a former repairman obvioulsy having been inside the door (window regulator? door handle linkage?) and NOT REPLACING the membrane seal, aka shower curtain.

This is where I executed a repair which didn't work: I figured I could add strength back into those limp areas with some resin and fiberglass cloth, without removing the door card's vinyl and foam of from pressed-board. The vinyl is incredibly fragile. A good plan? No.

Why? The resin soaked right through the pressed-board and onto the vinyl; the ensuing chemical reaction left the vinyl warped and unsightly. My repairs to the driver's door, repairing pressed-board that was cracked but not water damaged, seem to not have allowed the resin to soak through, and were a success.

I've ordered a replacement passenger door card from Plyhammer. And BTW, the membrane seals/shower curtains appear to be available from Porsche AG; I think the number is 944 555 178 05, at approximately $35 each. I likely make my own and retain them with 3M strip caulk.

]
Driver door repair to upper rear edge


Driver door repair/strengthening plate, interior door handle mount.


Driver door card repairs


I'd applied resin and cloth to this whole area; it was thoroughly damaged from prior water ingress, but ...


... the chemical reaction between resin and vinyl resulted in an unusable panel.


Replacement panel is on the way.

Kind wishes to all,
John

[jjeffries]

For those interested in such petty details, I finally ran an abacus over my pile of receipts for this car.

I'm in it for about $6K in parts/materials, plus the $800 I paid for the car and $100 to flatbed it home. Let's call it seven grand.

I provide this as a reality check to anyone getting into such a project, neither a happy nor sad number. My decisions on what to buy and how to spend have been based on doing things right, building-in reliability and original performance, not cutting corners. I've also been thrifty by shopping around and not replacing parts which are still good just for the sake of it.. I have not insisted on buying Genuine Parts, which would have more than doubled everything. I know these numbers are absolutely in-line with what others have experienced. This car will be really good once completed, at which point I'll likely sell it.

It's still a work in progress, of course. Tires, a windshield and some cosmetics remain.

This car came with largely good paint; I cannot imagine embarking on one of these with bad paint, let alone any rust.

John

[maint]

"It's still a work in progress, of course"
Your figures ( and repair philosophy) are about what I had into it when I 'finished' 8 years back. But it was never 'finished': the more I drive it the more I find things that need attention. In the last year it's become more hobby than car.

[jjeffries]

Nothing particularly interesting, just a little detail work today in creating the door membranes, aka shower curtains. I did this by scrounging up a good plastic bag of suitable thickness, my long-service box of 3M Strip Caulk and a fresh blade in the Exacto knife.

I remember when I was a field rep for one of the Japanese auto manufacturers in the early 90's and - uncharacteristically - most examples of a certain models had a water-leak problem due to a production error. The fix was ... installing extra, ad-hoc shower curtains under the door cards and around the speakers. They worked!

The original water damage to my 924S's right door card would have been averted had whichever tech was in here before me replaced the membrane seal, so I wanted to ensure that mistake wasn't repeated.

Reasonably strong but not overly thick plastic sheet sourced from a bag; 3M Strip Caulk and some black duct tape where I'd had to make a cut for the door handle Borden cable. I reused the foam padding around the door handle.


The right side door still had the individual membrabe to protect the speaker.


The left door was lacking both the speaker membrane and the foam around the door handle, so I replicated both

By using the strip caulk, if/when I or anyone else has to go back into the door's gubbins for some future repair, I/they should be able to carefully peel back this plastic sheeting and restick it once whatever we're working on is resolved, protecting the fragile door cards and eliminating water leaks ... at least through the doors.

Thanks for checking this out.

John

[pfarah]

Great idea with using the caulk John, should have thought about that before trim adhesive spray.

[OK-944]

Yup...me too - about 6K into my project over the past 18 months. Figured less than half this at the start - but that was then...and this is now. The rabbit hole intervened!

[jjeffries]

Originally Posted by pfarah

Great idea with using the caulk John, should have thought about that before trim adhesive spray.

Patrick, it’s one of those products of which we should all keep a box kicking around. If stored sensibly it lasts about forever.

Thanks,
John

[jjeffries]

Originally Posted by OK-944

Yup...me too - about 6K into my project over the past 18 months. Figured less than half this at the start - but that was then...and this is now. The rabbit hole intervened!

OK944: it sounds like you’ve proved the classic rule of “work out your best estimate, then double it”.

I was talking with friends about an 82 SC on Pelican’s Cars For Sale forum right now; it’s said to need a “broken head stud” repair and is listed for $25K. We were trying to figure out what freshening that motor would cost (in parts and sublet only; no charge for our own labor). In 2015 dollars, as-in when I did the same job on mine, ca. $6K was the amount. Yes, there are many variables in that. I did split the case to bearings, chains and reseal, but the engine’s ancillaries were all good. How much have parts prices or machine shop costs gone up in the intervening six years? Dunno, but I doubt they’ve decreased. I wonder, too, if the current massive increase in air-cooled 911 values is a bubble which will burst? The amount of money being spent, particularly on BaT, beggars belief, at least mine. BaT has been a market-maker, no wonder Hearst Publishing saw it as a good investment.

John