NO OIL !?!?!? damn 16y/o drivers...

odie · 10:29 AM

The dipstick is bone dry. Not even a drop of oil hanging on the tip. Pulled the oil drain plug and I got less than 3 quarts of oil. Maybe 2.5-2.75 quarts. Black oil too so it's been in there a while.

There were the typical metal powder on the magnetic plug. And one sliver (2mmx5mm) that was paper thin....casting flash or rod bearing????

I'm gonna fill it with oil and see what happens. Should I do anything special like pouring some Marvel Mystery Oil in the spark plug holes? What about pouring oil down the filter mount? I would pre-soak the filter but it installs upside down.

I'm guessing the lifters are completely dry. Will they start priming as soon as the oil pressure comes up? Should I expect some rattling for a few seconds until they fill?

What about the oil pump? I saw some old posts talking about having to prime or bleed the oil pump or it won't work? The Haynes manual didn't mention this in the engine rebuild section. It says to crank the engine over until oil pressure builds, then re-connect the ignition.

I'm hoping that this low oil level is the cause of the problems. Hopefully it was only brief and no damage was done.

How low is the oil pump pick up? With almost 3 quarts there should have still been oil pressure...unless the oiling system engine can hold that much before it "overflows" at the valvetrain and drains back to the oil panfor another trip. I guess maybe the oil pump pumped the pan dry before any oil could make it back to the sump.

gearhead290 · 05-17-2003, 01:59 PM

Put oil in it, start it, and listen for a knock. If it knocks then you have problems, just like me.

BTW-if the car is high mileage then it will probably need valve seals. And just because it was almost out of oil doesn't mean it has needed an oil change for a long time (but the black oil does). MY oil change had 1000 miles on it and it had used 3.5 quarts of oil. AND I changed my oil every 2500 miles instead of 3000 so it might jsut be that he forgot to check the oil. I know I never did cuz I was always excited to be driving my car.

highboost951 · 05-17-2003, 02:13 PM

the sliver of metal is part of a rod bearing, the silver metallic sludge is the same(it's an obvious warning that the bearings are wearing, which obviously was ignored). To try your luck, pull the spark plugs and dme relay and crank till oil pressure builds, then stick the plugs and relay back in and fire it up. Yes the lifters will be noisy until they fill with oil, but I bet you the bottom end will be noisier.

odie · 05-17-2003, 02:45 PM

8 damn quarts! I went to Walmart and bought a 2 gallon jug of oil. The car swallowed it all. I'm having trouble getting a good reading on the dipstick 'cause the oil is clean. It looks to be a little past the full mark.

I cranked the engine a few times with the distibutor wire off. Maybe 8-10 times for 4-5 seconds. Hooked the wire back up and fire the engine up. Still made some noise. Oil pressure started to flicker, then shot up and all the engine noise started to quiet down. Engine surged, then stumbled. Shut it down thinking too much oil in the pan and the crank is slapping the oil in the sump.

I read so older posts about guys adding an extra 1-2 quarts just to help prime the oil pump. Then immediately draining the excess. I just can't tell how much excess there is. I'm just letting it settle and will try checking it again later.

I want to try to let the engine run for a while with solid oil pressure and get the stethescope out and check for rod noises.

todwic · todwic's Garage

If your engine isn't dying, it's hurt. You should have pulled your sparkplugs when you cranked it to build oil pressure, it takes the burden of compression off of your rod bearings. These engines have little tolerance for low oil levels. You might be alright, but I predict engine rebuild within the next 10,000 mi. I hope I'm wrong, and good luck.

highboost951 · 05-17-2003, 03:11 PM

To add to Todwic's post, w/o pulling the relay, you were just dumping fuel into the cylinders when you were cranking it to build pressure, that's why it surged possibly. Never add more than a 1/2 qt extra, you'll throw so much oil on the cylinder walls that you'll create a smoke machine.

odie · 05-17-2003, 04:36 PM

I drained about a quart of oil and started it up. Oil pressure steady at "4".

A noticable knock or two when starting. Then fairly quiet. But when I get out and open the hood there is a noticable ticking, obsiously a lifter or two. Bad or still needing to pump up fully. More unsettling noises when I try to rev it a little. Probably good old #2 rod bearing going bad.

AaronM · 05-17-2003, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by odie
I drained about a quart of oil and started it up. Oil pressure steady at "4".

A noticable knock or two when starting. Then fairly quiet. But when I get out and open the hood there is a noticable ticking, obsiously a lifter or two. Bad or still needing to pump up fully. More unsettling noises when I try to rev it a little. Probably good old #2 rod bearing going bad.

These engines have a litte bit of ticking to them all the time from what I can understand. IIRC the injectors make clicking noises.

Aaron

todwic · todwic's Garage

every Porsche and volkswagon engine I've had the privelage to listen to do have a...consistant tick. Just my opinion, and I haven't heard a lot of em. even the air cooled beetle I had did it.

odie · 05-18-2003, 12:41 AM

well this is my first German water pumper. I've had 2 914s and a Bug. But with the solid lifters I expected valvetrain noise. This 944 is supposedly hyd lifters. Should be pretty quiet.

By comparison, I looked at a 1987 944NA right before buying this one. It ran pretty quite and smooth. But the rest of the car was pretty rough so I offered $1000 ($500 too much in retrospect) and walked. Someone else now has that problem child.

I'm just gonna let it sit until I get a workshop set up and can yank the motor for a rebuild (top & bottom). I'll still poke and prod at it in the meantime.

carsontc · 05-18-2003, 06:36 AM

sounds like a good plan

speedy007 · speedy007's Garage

waaaaaa......
just drive it.

Roger Hall · 05-18-2003, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by odie
8 damn quarts! I went to Walmart and bought a 2 gallon jug of oil. The car swallowed it all.

ARRRRRRRRRFGGGGGGGGG!!!!!

Car just hates 2 gallons of Wallmart goo.

gearhead290 · 05-18-2003, 06:21 PM

Wallmart carries Mobile 1. I haven't seen it in gallon jugs yet.

todd951 · 05-18-2003, 06:27 PM

I've bought 5-quart jugs of Mobil 1 at Walmart before, but they don't always have them. It might vary from store to store...

odie · 05-18-2003, 08:06 PM

I just used Walmart's Super Tech brand. Look at the API rating. All brands with the same rating are gonna be the same quality. No one is gonna make their oil any better unless they can qualify for the next higher API classification. The rest is all marketing BS.

Besides, If the engine comes back to life good enough to drive, I'll be draining it again and again for a while.

XJOSHX · 05-18-2003, 09:50 PM

I got my first 944 when I was 16 and I changed my oil every 1500 miles. I still do that to this day. It's not all younger people....just some. 5 years and 4 944's later, I can still say that everyone I have got rid of left in better condition than I baught it in.

AaronM · 05-19-2003, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by odie
well this is my first German water pumper. I've had 2 914s and a Bug. But with the solid lifters I expected valvetrain noise. This 944 is supposedly hyd lifters. Should be pretty quiet.

By comparison, I looked at a 1987 944NA right before buying this one. It ran pretty quite and smooth. But the rest of the car was pretty rough so I offered $1000 ($500 too much in retrospect) and walked. Someone else now has that problem child.

I'm just gonna let it sit until I get a workshop set up and can yank the motor for a rebuild (top & bottom). I'll still poke and prod at it in the meantime.

Mine clicks pretty noticeably when the hood is open and the engine is idling. Revving the engine drowns out the ticking. My mechanic said that it was just the injectors, which agrees with what I've heard here.

On the other hand, I've heard lifter clatter and the clicking from my engine is definitely not lifter clatter.

With the hood shut, one can't hear the clicking. If yours is louder then it might be a problem.

Aaron

highboost951 · 05-19-2003, 08:12 AM

Given the circumstances, it's a rod bearing. save your time and tackle it. I've been rebuilding 944 motors for over 10years.

odie · 05-19-2003, 08:26 AM

A rebuild is already planned. But it would be nice to be able to drive it a couple of times first.

I definetly have at least one lifter that is not fully pumped up. Will it eventually bleed the air out? Can it cause any damage or is it just noisy until it fully pumps up? How long can it take to purge the air?

The lifter is the loudest noise I can detect at the moment. Until it quiets down it's hard for me to hear any other noises.