Learning self repair....

[Deacon]

Hey. I'm a relative newbie here. I'm looking to buy a 911SC or 944 as a daily driver. I've always wanted a porsche, and like a lot of you, I dreamed of one day owning one.

Well...one of the reasons I want an 'older' car is because I want to do some of the work myself. I figure I can learn as I go along. Which brings me to my next question...what is the best way to learn how to work on cars? I am good with tools, and with fixing mechanical things, but I've never actually worked on a car before.

Thanks...

JJJ (soon to be Porsche owner)
Miami, FL

[Rollins]

I would say a 944 would be a better choice to start with. I got mine and I had no idea how to do anything to cars except drive them. I'm still no mechanic, but I have amassed a fair amount of knowledge. I think working on a 944 would be easier than a 911. Get yourself a copy of the factory manuals. They may be a little expensive but there are two high points, they don't go down in value, and they are far superior to the haynes manual.

[wolfrpi]

I've had both (79 911SC and 3 944s). The 944s are fun because they are relatively cheap to buy and maintain. The 911s on the other hand are relatively expensive to buy and maintain. Its all a matter of personal preference and bank account size....

Erick

[mike944]

If you want to learn how to work on cars, That's a tough one to explain how to do it. But i think the way to learn is to just start small. Let someone else handle the big items for now. The more you do, the more comfortable you'll get.

What's always helped me is, as you take things apart, don't just start unbolting parts, but figure out how the thing works first. Why is it put together like that? Why does that belt wrap around like that? etc... If you understand why it does what it does, you'll have an easier time getting things back together correctly, instead of incorrectly.

Keep everything organized and labeled, make sure all the bolts get back into the same holes they came out of. Use anti-sieze compound on all the bolt threads, they'll come apart MUCH easier next time (except where the manuals say to use sealant, or threadlocker). Just be carefull, and don't force anything. One thing i've noticed about the 944 is that it comes apart and goes together much more like a precision machine, than just a car. If you have to force anything, you're probably doing something wrong.

As far as which car, I've never owned, or worked on a 911, but i've heard they're much simpler mechanically. But they are more expensive repair.

Good luck

Mike

[1.2gees]

I'd recommend an early 944, over a 911.

I think it's cheaper, more fun, easier to work on, etc.

You have to do ALL the work yourself on the 911, or you'll end up spending many times what the car's worth, ON it.

I personally like the feel of 944s better, but I do have a sweet spot for early 911s (not SC, or later), with lots of power.

Wolfpri, I'd be interested in hearing from you, a comparison of 911s, vs. 944s. I've driven many examples of each, but never actually owned one, which's got to be the better indicator.
Ahmet

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It's all the driver...

[Deacon]

Thanks for all the replies everyone Listening to the experience of others who learned on their porsches makes me feel a lot better about going through with it. My plan is to let a pro diagnose the problems and fix the bigger stuff, while I tackle the smaller stuff until I get more experience.

I'm leaning towards a 944 now, only because it seems like there are a lot more 944s to pick from in my area. There are a few 911SC's, but they are all Targas. I guess there's something about driving in Miami with the top down

Is there an equivalent 944 book to Anderson's highly recommended 911 book? Or are the factory manuals all we have?

JJJ (soon to be Porsche owner)
Miami, FL

[1.2gees]

There's TONS of books on the 944...

I'd start listing them, but you can go to Amazon.com, and run a search.

Be warned, the production #s in almost every book is flawed, by a big margin too. Some of the factual information isn't exactly dead on either, but overall pretty accurate.

PS: Original Porsche 924/944/968 has many good pictures, and it's well written, entertaining to read, etc. But it's filled with crap as far as the actual information goes, and don't cite anything from that book for any purpose!
Ahmet

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It's all the driver...

[Obin Robinson]

if you are really interested, i can scan all the repair receipts from my 944 and send them to you. they are for the past 10 years.

get a 911 owner to do the same. that is the best way to compare the cost of maintenance for real.

either car is wonderful, but if you're interested in upkeep, reliability, and maintenance, then get some receipts in your hands and then make the decision.

as for "how hard is it to fix a 944". well, i've owned a Mercedes, a Nissan, a VW, and 2 Porsches. the VW (a Scirocco 16V) is the trickiest one to fix of them all. the 944 is right after that. the 924 is damn easy. the Mercedes and Nissan were even in complexity to repair.

good luck!

obin

[Obin Robinson]

check your e-mail, i just sent you a message

obin

[Lawrence Coppari]

My repair jobs take weeks sometimes. During this time I can forget where bolts go. So what I do is put the bolts back in the holes so I don't get things mixed up.

With the advent of digital cameras, these are great aids in remembering where things go. I've used cameras when taking clocks apart. All the darn little pieces can be troublesome.

Other times I use typewriter correction fluid to mark things - like the flanges on tensioners - which side is out. Other people have better memories than I, but this works for me.

Have fun.

[wolfrpi]

Ahmet - they're a many differences between my SC and my 944s - too many to list here as you can imagine. The thing I liked most about the SC was its relative simplicity and great looks. Also, the car felt incredibly tight, although its handling was a little tricky at 90 mph on tight blind turns! I did time trials and was informally competing with another SC and he ended up spinning his and coming pretty close to a total. So yeah they handle like everybody says - pretty crazy! The engines are also EXTREMELY complex and expensive. I sold the SC to my father and he is rebuilding the motor. To do it right and get about 250-280 hp figure about $10,000 - $15,000 with carbs, studs, heads, cams, new P/C, etc.

Here's my old 79 SC...



The 944 feels like it might not quite have the structural rigity (which can be fixed with a cage). Other than that, just about every thing about it is superior - it is easy to work on and cheap (compared to the 911). It has higher handling limits and is more enjoyable to drive everyday. Also, you can extract more reliable power out of a 951 than most 930s as far as I know (before major internal work). With that said, I'll probably get a fair condition 86 930 next summer to fix up and trick out.

Erick

[This message has been edited by wolfrpi (edited 03-19-2001).]

[This message has been edited by wolfrpi (edited 03-19-2001).]

[1.2gees]

Thanks for the comparison...

Yeah, sometimes I feel like there's noticable chasis flex on the 944, but I've seen some cars that are supposed to be "rigid" on lifts, and the 944 easily holds it's own.

I think the relative "feel" of the 911s tightness has at least a little to do with the fact that since there's not much weight anywhere forward of the engine/transaxle, not as much force is trying to bend/flex the chasis in the first place.

911s do feel solid, just in a different way... 944s really do feel extremely stable, but the "pendulum" effect can get out of hand quite easily. I considered getting a 5spd 924 (Porsche made, in house transaxles, for one year), with the gearbox ahead of the diff... That's a different post altogether.

You know what, I don't wanna turn this into another 911 vs. 944 posts.

Thanks for the reply. I may consider a 911 as well, but only as an addition for another 4 cylinder transaxle car!

Thanks again,
Ahmet

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It's all the driver...

[hoff944]

As far as working on the car.........trial and error...lots of error.

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

Best cars to start with are aircooled VW or a rabbit or a 924.

911 and 944 needs to much tooling and expensive parts and are hard to improve.

An 924 can recive alll the good 944 stuff makes a lot fun and will still have value even if your paintwork looks like you brushed it on.

Grüsse

[Deacon]

Thanks to everyone for your responses. And thanks Obin for the personal e-mail...

I decided to get a 924 or 944 while I learn, then maybe step to the 911 later. Thats if I don't fall too much in love with the 924/944

What I'll probably start with as some suggested is get a basic auto repair book from the bookstore, and read that through. Meanwhile, time to beat the streets looking for that perfect car. I've been lurking here a bit, so I've read the posts on what to look out for regarding that.

Thanks again everyone...

JJJ (looking forward to joining your ranks!!)
Miami, FL

[Obin Robinson]

Originally posted by Deacon:
Thanks to everyone for your responses. And thanks Obin for the personal e-mail...

I decided to get a 924 or 944 while I learn, then maybe step to the 911 later. Thats if I don't fall too much in love with the 924/944

What I'll probably start with as some suggested is get a basic auto repair book from the bookstore, and read that through. Meanwhile, time to beat the streets looking for that perfect car. I've been lurking here a bit, so I've read the posts on what to look out for regarding that.

Thanks again everyone...

JJJ (looking forward to joining your ranks!!)
Miami, FL

good deal! the other bottom line is JOIN THE PCA!

i'll be honest with you, before i got the 924, i literally went from A-to-Z in sports cars. i looked at several nice 911s, 944s, 914s, etc. the thing i did not like was that anytime you said "Porsche 911", the mechanics rolled their eyes, and the cashiers had dollar signs in their eyes. it's like the prices tripled because you said "porsche 911"... though they are no more complex than many other cars. i can't see the honesty in charging someone $600 to do a 3 hour brake job that you can do yourself for $200.

that disheartens me. i don't think people should get ripped off on parts or labor for any work on cars. you know, my VW has the lowest labor rates of any car i've owned.. but it's the most complex damn thing to fix!!! so why is it $25/hour cheaper than a 924 to get the same work done?

seeing that you are new to working on your own car, i would not want the Porsche experience to bite you. 911s are wonderful cars, so are 928s, and so are 914s and 356s. as a beginner car, i would not recommend any of the above because there's "shockers" in there like:

the 911 chain tensioners busting, or blowing out the airbox ($$$$$$)
the 928 clutch getting busted ($$$$$$$$$$$)
914 and 356 rust (scrap the car and get a new one).

though they are all indeed WONDERFUL cars, i don't think i'd recommend them as your FIRST Porsche assuming you have little experience working on cars. get a 924 because they are dirt cheap as hell to operate, have a lot of fun with it. when you get bored, get a 911, a 928, or a 944 turbo. if you need something for your 924, and you say "damn, this is both COMPLEX, and EXPENSIVE", then it's nice to know that whatever you had to do was 1/4 the price to getting it done on a 928 or later 911.

you may get a 924 and say "you know, this is fun but it's not for me". that is fine, no problem. it's nice to know that it would only be a $2000 mistake rather than a $10,000 911 or 928 that needed $6,000 in repairs. also, if you get bored with the car (which i really don't think you will), then it's nice to know that there will always be someone out there willing to purchase it that isn't too picky about cars.

also, as a beginner wanting good info on how cars work, check this web site, along with the other info i sent you:

http://www.automotive101.com

good luck!
obin