S. Cal, rain, and the 944

[rbt944]

Yesterday, the first morning after it rained here, I headed out with the 944. Making a right turn on an intersection, it was not pouring out yet but the road was a little bit wet and I was in second gear. I turned in, and as I was exiting I gave it a little gas and then found the back had caught up with the car. I let go of the gas and turned the wheel to correct it and gave it just a little bit of gas but it then snapped the opposite way, this time headed for that divider that seperates on coming traffic. I had to brake and stopped with only my front left wheel going over the step on the divider and my car stalled because I still had it in gear. This all happened at very low speeds. I was surprised how quickly the rear end broke loose. Maybe the wet street and oil maybe but I can't be sure.
Did I do right in trying to correct the car after it broke loose? Maybe because I kept it in gear is why the rear end snapped back? Luckily nothing seems to be broken because it happened at low speed, but since the left front wheel was the only thing that hit something I will have to check the car to be sure. Though when I let go of the steering wheel it does not seem to pull in that direction. The downside is that I am traumatized. I was affraid of taking any turn faster than a snail throughout the day.

[scottmandue]

Check the air presure in your tires.
What kind of tires are you running? What condition?
This should not happen with good properly inflated tires.

[thamlin000]

You need better tires. My Yokohama AVS ES100s are 10x better in the rain the the old Sears tires I ran before.

Also, roads are very slick on the first day of rainfall if the area hasn't recieved much rain. The oil and water combo is slippery.

[singpilot]

I put the lightning protection device on the stainless stays on my boat. I have second-highest mast in the marina. It rained hard here, small hail for 20 seconds or so. Rain was for 2 hours.

Checked both P-cars in the lot this morning, both had covers on, and no damage.

Very unusual for SoCal.

[Frank B]

new tires, correct air pressure, and slow down a lilttle. I can break my traction at will with good tires, plenty of air and lots of experience.

[singpilot]

Haha, I had to read that several times to get it. I was referring to SOuthernCALifornia. Not SoCal the infamous post-er.

BTW, thanks for the post about the DME problem the other night. Your Modded board sounds interesting. I may be your next customer.

Michael.

[rbt944]

The tires have plenty of tread, I have 225's in front and 215 in back. Could that tire combination have been it? I do remember not too long ago raising the tire pressure just a bit but current psi right now (11:43pm) is 30 front and 32 back. I have considered new tires, maybe some brand name. The current brand that I have is Nankang???? This situation has made me think more about traction and I want to lower the back and possibly go with wider wheels.
Yes, I did see the news and saw a guy shoveling out the hail. I have to agree, it seemed weird for Southern California. But I like the rain and the thunder and lightning topped it off for me

[MrPants]

probably just the oil in the road. i can barely get my rear to step out under 20 mph. and ive got crappy walmart tires.
close calls make for better drivers

[ldl]

Ya... I am leaning towards the oil also..

What turn was it?

And I had a similar event happen to me..
But I didn't tap a curb or anything...
I just slowly pressed the brakes because I know what it should
have felt like bringing the end around... And this time, it didn't feel right.
And if I hadn't done so, I would have probably tapped something.

Whenever one is to do so, as in a "tail whip" or whatever you want to
call it, it's kind of hard to know if there's anything that could inhibit the traction; esspecially with a corner your not familiar with.

But I agree with MrPants on the issue of "close calls make for better drivers"
We learn something new everyday we're on the road...

Well stay safe all. (Drive safe) lol
Later.

[daveimme]

I have Toyo Proxes TPT tires on my car and though they provide excellent traction in the dry, these would not be the tire of choice for, say, Seattle. They suck in the wet. If it is raining, or the road wet, when I leave for work in the morning, the tires spin very easily.

I'd have to agree, though....oil and water mix terribly on the road....

[scottmandue]

Originally posted by rbt944
The tires have plenty of tread, I have 225's in front and 215 in back. Could that tire combination have been it?

Uh... am I reading this correct?
Do you mean 225's back and 215's front, that the way it should be.
And yes if you have the wide tires on the front and smaller on back I think that would make your car tail happy.
I'm no tire expert but that's my two cents.

[BlueQuestTSi]

I agree with scottmandue.


Also, on correcting it from the first, all you should of done was let off the gas. The tire momentum would of slowed to your rolling speed, and the rear end should of re-aligned itself with the front. Then ease back on the gas, and you should be on your way again.

If the tires are that bad, even in first rain, I'd be forced to ask what kind of tires do you have? My guess is you are running a soft compound summer tire, and your driving conditions were very cold and wet. In these conditions, summer tires usually have no traction what-so-ever.

On my Conquest I run Potenza RE730's, excellent rain and summer tire. In the summer time they rarely break loose on dry streets, but in the winter, I can spin them throughout 1st, 2nd and sometime 3rd gear, due to how hard the compound gets when it's cold out.

[..P]

your problem is Road Oil

It may also be the brand of tire you have.

If both of these are working against you, it can be very dangerous.

When I first got my '84 944 I was driving down the road just after it rained, entered a curve and all of a sudden found myself fishtailing all over the place. I was very lucky because I could have torn up the car, gotten injured, and potentially hurt someone else. It was road oil + crappy tires.

In San Diego in particular (having built a 200,000 SF office building there a couple years ago and visited on a regular basis) you guys don't get any rain to speak of. If you get a tiny bit of rain, you also get headlines in the newspapers that say "STREETS WET IN SAN DIEGO". It's true.

Therefore, you get a LOT of oil on the roads. Then once in a while when you do get rain, its probably like driving on grease until there is enough rain to wash it off. In San Diego, you may never get enough rain to wash off the road oil.

The 944 had those "EAGER" tires on it, and they were junk. I've run through a couple sets of Bridgestone RE730 tires on my 928, and they perform very very very well in the wet. I select my tires based on how they test out in the wet, because that seems to be the biggest potential for a 50%/50% weight bias car to slide out. Good rain tires makes a 944 and a 928 a lot safer, in my opinion.

On the 944 I selected the Firestone Firehawk SZ50 EP due to their ability to hold on wet roads. I had to go to a 60 series tire to get them, but they do the job well. If I had to do it over again, I probbly would not have gone to the 60 series tires, and would have picked another good rain tire.

Look at this link, you'll see how the tires rate for wet and dry. At the time I picked the RE730's, they were testing the best in the chart. I can tell you they are very good in the rain, but it looks like there are some other choices too.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/uhp.jsp

regards, P

[rbt944]

Mr. Pants, I have to agree with you. Next time it happens i'm going straight for the brakes.
|d| I was on Grand N. Making a right on Arrow hwy. Next to the donut shop. I'm sure people getting donuts and coffe in the morning got a show
daveimme and BlueQuestTSi, I have just recently started trying to educate myself about tires. When I got the tires I currently have right now I just said "I need tires, sure that sounds good how much are they" and then drove off. Next time I'm researching and no small brand tires for me anymore.
scottmandue. You are correct. 225's front 215's back. When I got my tires I replaced the rears first. Then when I went for the fronts the guy at the tire shop said "you want wider tires, It's the same price". I thought, hmm....wider=good and said "yeah, sure". I will go get the 225's put on the back and bring the 215's to the front once I get paid.
...P , thanks for the link.
Thank you all for your input. Come to think of it, there are a couple of auto shops from where my incident happened. 'Maybe' an oil leaking car limping to shop must have made the road slippery.

[Mark_944S2]

The problem is not adapting your driving to the weather conditions. The stuff the other posters said about oil on the road is absolutely right, so slow down! The first time after it rains the road is covered with a mixture of oil from the tarmac in the road itself coming to the surface, rain, dirt, tyre rubber, you name it. When it rains regularly this stuff gets washed away but in dry weather it accumulates until the first time it rains.

An interesting statistic is that most loss of control is in the opposite direction to the first skid - so due to over-correction of the first skid. I got the hand of skid correction in my Supra - you have to steer into the skid as you did, but then snap the wheel back to straight or even a little the other way real quick AS SOON AS you feel the car start to respond. Correction and back to straight could all be over in 1-2s in the wet. Its fine once you can do it but public roads aren't a good place to learn. Don't know about here but in the UK some clubs used to do wet skid training sometimes. Anyone know?

Mark

[Roger Hall]

I grew up in northern California and learned that oil builds up on the roads after three or four months without rain. The first rainfall of the season is very dangerous. Somtimes you can see the rainbow sheen as the water rolls off the road.

[ldl]

Man.. I drive past that intersection all the time...
I wonder how I've never seen you around the covina area.

Well later.
Bye.

[rbt944]

Thanks Mark_944S2 for the tip.
The only thing that I have seen that's close to the wet skid pad that you said is a wet go kart track not too far from here at a place called speedzone. Makes good fun. Maybe I need more seat time on there and practice skid correction.
I think I'll put the 944 away during rainy days and just drive the Honda.
|d| I'm always driving up N on Barranca and Grand when I go to school. Maybe one of these days i'll spot you.

[Dark Skies]

Originally posted by FR Wilk
I am in the auto section and there it is, the Slim Jim. The Slim Jim that opens car doors. The metal strip that you put down the window to pop the lock. I don't know if I am comfortable knowing that any hood can buy one of these and walk out to the parking lot and boost a car. Hopefully the store owners car gets boosted for selling these things to anyone for 99¢.

Really? Straight up? Over here the moment you took possession of that you could be busted for going equipped to steal - even if you were just minding your own business.

The funny thing is if I got in your car and drove it off the police would have a hard job proving that I intended to steal it - unless I was found chopping it for parts. The reason being that theft requires that I had the intention of permanently depriving you of your property. I could offer the defence that I thought you wouldn't mind if I borrowed it for a while. Most car thefts are put down to Taking and driving away Without the Owners Consent. Twocing as the lads in the sink estates call it.

[rbt944]

Wilk, now that you mention that. My mother went to the 99c. store to purchase something. She had some christmas presents that her friend gave her. When she came out they were gone, stolen. She left her door unlocked, but it could have been that somebody bought the slim jim and decided to try it out.