oil in coolant

[CJFusco]

Well, I have developed the typical oil in the coolant tank problem. Luckily, I do not have coolant in the oil... YET. Singpilot recommended to me that the car is okay for now, but I should get the problem corrected before the weather turns warmer.

Now, the problem is oil gasket seals, right? How much will this cost to replace if i have my mechanic tackle the problem?

[Moneyguy1]

CJ:

Like most things on the '44 block, the oil cooler is like my wife says "If you can see it, you can't reach it..If you can reach it, you can't see it"..This after years of watching me blindly grope for bolts and fasteners under the hood of various Porsche models. (Ever hear of a magnetized box wrench for that "blind bolt between a 911 engine and bell housing?) What fun!! The oil cooler job is relatively straighforward, not difficult, can be done by a shade treer, but IMHO should not take a mechanic more than two hours of his or her valuable and expensive time. If you have the Haynes manual, the description ain't half bad and at least you will have an idea what is involved. Personally, I would not wait.

Just my opinion

[plandy]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
Personally, I would not wait.

I double and triple the above. Don't wait with this! Given the extreme cold weather we are having your choices are limited if you don't own a heated garage. If working in the cold does not bother you then you can do this job with proper instructions/tools. Be aware you'll need a special alignment tool but it's not expensive.

[NYC_SpeedRacer]

so i assume it has gotten much worse since the timing belt party?

[dj_yen]

CJ:
your oil cooler seals are shot
i just recently had this problem rectified
i tried to tackle the problem myself but proved to be too difficult cause i don't have a garage so i had to take it to a mechanic
the seals themselves are like $30 bucks and the OPV alignment tool is about $50
parts are cheap but it is labor intensive. changing the seals shouldn't take more than 3-4 hours labor but then you have to flush the entire coolant system and possible change hoses (i had to change every hose in my system) which may take on an additional 3 hours labor so the whole job can be pretty damn expensive if you take it to a mechanic

when you car is running, the oil pressure is greater than the coolant pressure so oil goes into the coolant but when you shut off your car, the oil pressure drops but since your coolant is still hot and pressurized, coolant will leak into your engine. it may not be obvious now but i would bet that some coolant has already leaked into your engine. (kudos to singpilot of informing me of this)

if you happen to roll through NYC, i would have no problems lending you my OPV alignment tool.

btw, is your engine still vibrating funny? i totally misaligned the balance shaft at our timing belt party and just recently got it fixed. turned out all my front seals were shot so got those replaced also. my car is running better than ever!

[NYC_SpeedRacer]

Originally posted by dj_yen
i totally misaligned the balance shaft at our timing belt party and just recently got it fixed. turned out all my front seals were shot so got those replaced also. my car is running better than ever!

yup i agree.....his car is running great.....i went with him to pick it up.....what a difference.....like a new car....

[Sabyre]

What was this alignment party all about ... Sounds fun and Maine is not that far away!

[AFJuvat]

Yep, oil cooler seals are shot.

How the fluids exchange is like this:

oil is running at about 65 PSI under load, as opposed to the coolant which is at about 16 - 20 PSI

So oil runs into the coolant - until the engine stops.

Then, oil pressure drops to less than 16PSI, where the coolant is above that until the car cools down - water leaks into oil

You need to replace the seals (as has been already said).

You can do the job yourself - it isn't all that hard, but it can be time consuming.

Labor breaks down as follows if you have a mechanic do it.

R&R oil cooler seals: 2.5
Flush, clean and refill cooling system: 1.5
Change oil: 0.5

Figure 4 - 5 hours labor

AFJuvat

[TheCooler]

I think everyone at that belt party has oil in there coolant... cept me HAR HAR. Well, an oil cooler seal party would be cool. Maybe we could make it an anything leaking party. I know everyone has a leak somewhere....

[CJFusco]

Judging by the responses, I will tackle this job myself (with the help of my mechanically-inclined friends) as soon as the weather warms a bit. 30 degrees would be good enough... my buddy Greg has a couple kerosene heaters in his garage, it's where all my friends go to do work on their cars. I think I will buy the tool and the parts and do it there... If I figure 4-5 hours labor, it will probably take 7, so I'll make sure I book the garage for an all-day session.

Ok, so I'll need:
1) Alignment tool (please be a bit more specific here )
2) Coolant seals
3) New Coolant
4) New Oil Filter (might as well, as long as I'm changing oil)
5) 5 Quarts of oil

Anything else?

"so i assume it has gotten much worse since the timing belt party?"

No, not much worse... it's still just spots in the coolant tank. But I don't want it to get much worse. As you could tell by the white car's condition when you saw it for yourself, I am pretty obsessive over it... I REALLY REALLY don't like it when something needs to be fixed on my car. Hell, when I look at the thing, all I see are the discolored stone guards and the bent front splitter...

[singpilot]

CJ and gang. I rinsed and washed / scrubbed clean my coolant resevoir several (like 4 times) before there were not traces of oil in there after the cooler seal change. Don't get discouraged by the oil still apperaing AFTER the seal change. There are 2,345,678 places for that floating oil to hide in the coolant galleys. As you drive around AFTER the seal change, they SLOWLY flush out to the resevoir. I was SURE I had f-ed up the seal change because oil showed up for weeks. The only thing I would have done different was not to put $$$ coolant in the engine for the first couple of flushes. Especially where the outside air temp is right now back there in the east.

The PRV (pressure relief valve) alignment tool is really simple. It takes the place of the PRV while you assemble the cooler. It has a taper that aligns the cooler and the seals to the block. Get it wrong, and you pinch a seal: you'll get better at doing this job the second time.

I could probably find mine and mail it you if you can't find someone with one back there.

Keep us all posted on how it's going.

DJ... I still feel bad for not being able to stay and see yours thru that day. I know you had seals leaking with all the oil behind your cover, and having the spring tensioner was another tough one. We probably should have done yours first. Glad to hear you got it all sorted out.

[rammstein]

an "all leaks party" eh?

that sounds like a HUGE fiasco. It would take days! I mean, awww... shoot. I wanna come! Let do it!

I can bring donuts, and my two new Craftsman hose clamps!

[Sabyre]

Nice Avater change Rammstien!!

[dj_yen]

Originally posted by singpilot

DJ... I still feel bad for not being able to stay and see yours thru that day. I know you had seals leaking with all the oil behind your cover, and having the spring tensioner was another tough one. We probably should have done yours first. Glad to hear you got it all sorted out.

sing: don't feel bad. you and everyone else was a great help and i got a chance to really learn more about my car and meet some great people

i still owe you for the timing belt and balance shaft belt
how can i repay you? PM me if necessary

if you guys get together for an oil seal problem, well, i might be the only one who DOESN'T have a problem. i'd still love to hang out. i wanna see more of your 951, ramm

stay warm and drive safe esp. all you east coasters

[CJFusco]

rammstein, et al... we can definitely have an "all-leak party" if you want. March works for me... it SHOULD start getting warm by then.

Singpilot: if you mailed it to me, I would happily pay the postage both ways plus a little something for the effort. Thank you very much for your offer!

[Sabyre]

Let me ask you this... If I hosted a P party in Maine... are any of you close enough to attend?

[TheCooler]

Eh, That drive is a little too far for me.

[UconnTim97]

Me too...

[vital-transform]

I will come to any party you guys throw!
So much more fun than a trip to a mechanic
I would be glad to be part of the planning commitee

[CJFusco]

"If I hosted a P party in Maine... are any of you close enough to attend?"

Maybe. MikeCT, who I am good friends with ( I was the one who convinced him to buy his 944 ), has a cottage in Maine. If you threw a workshop/party up there in Spring/Summer, I am sure we could both attend...

...especially if we timed it to coincide with a PCA event (such as a rally/fun run)