who drifts in there 944. Post pics or vids

[944drift]

when i drift my 944 i use a few different methods depending on what im trying to do. The best way for me is to speed into the corner and trail brake than heal toe, let off the brake and throttle than turn into the corner hard hit the brakes than gas. You should be sideways at this point. The brake will move the wieght to your front wheels making the slide easier. I heal toe before turning because it allows me to slow the wheels a bit and do a slight shiftlock. I heal toe to 3200 rpm instead of 3500 which slows the wheels just enough not to lock them but instead move the weight and slow you down. Than you turn into the corner and brake for like a split second pretty hard this causes understear so when you let off the brake it will cause overstear. By letting off the brake and giving it no gas for a second it sets the car up perfectly to be turned sideways with a quick punch of the gas. imediatly after you hit the gas you should be sideways and counterstearing while slowly reapplying throttle to keep the car within its torque band so that the wheels stay spinning.

Also make sure you counterstear enough i used to just turn the wheel like almost once around and it wasnt enough. It took me a while to figure this out. I turn it almost two times now depending on speed than start to turn back into the corner so i stay sideways. I turn back in and let off the gas a bit then hit the gas hard and begin more counterstearing. You can stay sideways for a while doing this.
Go find a safe place and give it a try. If you get into it and need more help get the drift bible video and watch the part where he drifts the ae86. Thats pretty much how to do it in an underpowered car.

[fast924S]

Rage- that is one hell of a 951 you have, Love the car, Love the video, neve knew a 951 could sound sooo pissed off, LOVE IT

[NKN84944]

So my friend just showed me this, and thought you guys had to see these nutballs doing their version of open road drifting


Keep me far away from these people.Check it out here.

[fast924S]

yo that was crazy

[rb101]

The Qatar guys are crazy, I've seen them do wheelies on super bikes from round about to round about in (500-700 meters) and doing well over 200 kph.

[gearhead290]

Originally posted by bryanthompson
I think that was that gearhead420 guy or something like that. He had a sucky attitude and ended up buying a honda, if I remember correctly.

Actually, I bought a blown up mx6, it's actually relaible looking for an S13 or FC that's in decent shape to start a real car The 944 blew up too much and was difficult to drift...

[Z-man]

Ok, I don't drift my 944, nor do I play a drifter on TV. But there are some things that are incorrect in terms of car dynamics that 944drift posted. I do have a bit of track driving and autox experience under my belt, and it doesn't matter what venue to play in, basic car dynamics and techniques are the same.

So, here goes:

Originally posted by 944drift
The best way for me is to speed into the corner and trail brake than heal toe, let off the brake and throttle than turn into the corner hard hit the brakes than gas.

First of all, do you mean THEN HEEL and toe? No offense, but there is a big difference between THEN and THAN. (Then implies the next thing that is to happen, whereas THAN implies rather than doing the next thing stated) But that's just grammar & spelling. I am assuming that you do HEEL and toe.

I heal toe before turning because it allows me to slow the wheels a bit and do a slight shiftlock. I heal toe to 3200 rpm instead of 3500 which slows the wheels just enough not to lock them but instead move the weight and slow you down.

Heel and toe should NOT do anything to the handling dynamics of the car. The purpose of heel and toe is to get the car into a lower gear without upsetting the current attitude of the car while under braking. It sounds to me that you are using the lower gear to slow the car down. This is NOT the purpose of heel and toe.

Than you turn into the corner and brake for like a split second pretty hard this causes understear so when you let off the brake it will cause overstear.

Actually, you have the two (understeer / oversteer) reversed.
Hitting the brakes will cause the weight to transfer to the front of the car. Thus, there is more grip up front. This results in more of an OVERSTEERING attitude. (Oversteer occurs when there is greater slip angle at the rear of the car vs. the front of the car)
Letting off the brakes and appling throttle will cause weight transfer to the front of the car. Thus, you have greater traction at the REAR of the car. This causes more of an UNDERSTEERING attitude. (Understeer occurs when there is greater slip angle at the front of the car vs. the rear of the car)

-Z-man.

[bluebullet]

Originally posted by Z-man
Ok, I don't drift my 944, nor do I play a drifter on TV. But there are some things that are incorrect in terms of car dynamics that 944drift posted. I do have a bit of track driving and autox experience under my belt, and it doesn't matter what venue to play in, basic car dynamics and techniques are the same.

So, here goes:


First of all, do you mean THEN HEEL and toe? No offense, but there is a big difference between THEN and THAN. (Then implies the next thing that is to happen, whereas THAN implies rather than doing the next thing stated) But that's just grammar & spelling. I am assuming that you do HEEL and toe.

Heel and toe should NOT do anything to the handling dynamics of the car. The purpose of heel and toe is to get the car into a lower gear without upsetting the current attitude of the car while under braking. It sounds to me that you are using the lower gear to slow the car down. This is NOT the purpose of heel and toe.

Actually, you have the two (understeer / oversteer) reversed.
Hitting the brakes will cause the weight to transfer to the front of the car. Thus, there is more grip up front. This results in more of an OVERSTEERING attitude. (Oversteer occurs when there is greater slip angle at the rear of the car vs. the front of the car)
Letting off the brakes and appling throttle will cause weight transfer to the front of the car. Thus, you have greater traction at the REAR of the car. This causes more of an UNDERSTEERING attitude. (Understeer occurs when there is greater slip angle at the front of the car vs. the rear of the car)

-Z-man.

zman pwned.

[rage2]

I've taught drifting, and do a lot of autox and hot lapping in my car, so I've seen some of the drivers out there and their techniques. 944drift is using some agressive techniques which really aren't required with the 944, but I'll try and explain what he's doing.

Originally posted by Z-man
Heel and toe should NOT do anything to the handling dynamics of the car. The purpose of heel and toe is to get the car into a lower gear without upsetting the current attitude of the car while under braking. It sounds to me that you are using the lower gear to slow the car down. This is NOT the purpose of heel and toe.

Like you said, a proper heel and toe downshift is done to maintain balance under braking. What 944drift is doing is purposely not matching revs, so he's heel toe'ing and trail braking into a corner then using the mismatched revs to nudge the tail out and cause a slight oversteering condition. If matched with proper amounts of throttle, it induces a controlled oversteer condition, or the drift. It's called shiftlocking, and the amount of rev mismatch is determined by how much initual kick you'd want out of the corner, or the level of grip of the tires/track surface.

Now, on a 944 (NA or turbo), you can induce oversteer easily via trail braking alone, so there's no need to use shift locking. It's very hard on the LSD and tranny (driveline shock) especially if there's a high level of grip. Most drifting is done in 2nd gear, and with 1st and 2nd being the weak link on our trannys, it's not a desired way to initiate a drift.

Originally posted by Z-man
Actually, you have the two (understeer / oversteer) reversed.
Hitting the brakes will cause the weight to transfer to the front of the car. Thus, there is more grip up front. This results in more of an OVERSTEERING attitude. (Oversteer occurs when there is greater slip angle at the rear of the car vs. the front of the car)
Letting off the brakes and appling throttle will cause weight transfer to the front of the car. Thus, you have greater traction at the REAR of the car. This causes more of an UNDERSTEERING attitude. (Understeer occurs when there is greater slip angle at the front of the car vs. the rear of the car)

What he's doing (based on the fact that he said brake for a split second really hard) is actually locking the fronts. It's not really understeer, but straight lining. When he's off the brakes, the fronts bite hard, and gives the same effect as jerking the steering wheel towards a direction quickly, which induces oversteer. It's a very poor technique to initiate a drift... but it's pretty much required for changing directions in between 2 corners where radius increases substantially while being completely sideways .

If he's using that technique to initiate a drift into the first corners, it's much easier to transfer weight by steering into the opposite of intended direction then hard into the direction of travel, much like rally drivers.

[Z-man]

rage2:
Thanks for the explanation - all I can say is drifting with a 944 is like cutting down a tree with a butter knife. It can be done, but there won't be much left after it's all done.

Yikes - all this jerking, yanking, slamming - quite a different approach than the techniques I've learned for autox and track driving.

Whatever floats your boat, I suppose. I will say that drifting is fun to watch, but I'd rather deal with slip angles that are less dramatic!

-Z .

[rage2]

Originally posted by Z-man
rage2:
Thanks for the explanation - all I can say is drifting with a 944 is like cutting down a tree with a butter knife. It can be done, but there won't be much left after it's all done.

Not exactly true... if using the techniques that work well for the car, I'd say it's less wear and tear on the car than hot lapping. There's a lot less drivetrain shock because you're constantly spinning your tires, less force upon the drivetrain. Of course, the tires take a beating... I'm lucky I get free used tires for drifting.

Originally posted by Z-man
Yikes - all this jerking, yanking, slamming - quite a different approach than the techniques I've learned for autox and track driving.

Yep. I started because I enjoy learning new disciplines of racing. I've done drag, drift, autox, and lapping in my 951. Each requires different techniques and skillsets.

Originally posted by Z-man
Whatever floats your boat, I suppose. I will say that drifting is fun to watch, but I'd rather deal with slip angles that are less dramatic!

You should give it a try sometime. Most autox courses are good enough for drifting (as long as the solo2 guys don't get pissed off). It's a totally different rush when you're able to hang the tail out for several consecutive corners and remain in control. For me, its an even better rush than nailing 2 perfect autox runs within 0.1s .

[944drift]

the technique i posted is good becuause it caters to what judges are looking for in compitition. They want it to look like you smoothly entered the corner drifting. They dont want to see you feint wiht a large sweeping motion to get the drift started. Without this technique added to you feint that is what would be needed. This technique is great if you are going to fast for a tight turn and need to slow down a bit to properly drift it. If you are approching a mild turn, then a clutch kick with a slight feint is ideal because it will keep your speed high and your car will look nice and smooth going into the drift like you arnt even trying.

There are easier ways to get sideways but most of them arnt what the judges want to see. Even if you dont compete you should aim to drift the right way. A controlled slide into and out of the corner, not just a burst of gas at the apex to kick the end out. that is not driftng.

there really isnt as much jerking and slamming as it sounds in this technique z man. It is comes off very smooth when done right. It just takes a lot of practice.


Go to tremek.com and check out the drifting vids and see what im talking about.

[Z-man]

Ok, someone help me here: what the heck is "feint?"

944drift - nothing personal, but if you check your grammar and spelling, it would be much easier to read your posts.

-Z.

[Enthuzed1]

the feint is one of the many techniques used to create a drift by forcing a weight transfer of the car, causing the slide.........
lets say i was going to make a right hairpin turn......before the turn i would jerk the the car right, then left which causes the weight transfer, and then i would start drifting into my right turn, of course controlling the application of the throttle and counter steer.......
think of a pendulum........

[bryanthompson]

Face it, Z, some of us just won't ever be cool enough to drift.

[rage2]

Originally posted by bryanthompson
Face it, Z, some of us just won't ever be cool enough to drift.

It's not about being "cool". It's about not being ignorant to new ideas and different styles of driving.

[ae1969]

Originally posted by rage2
It's not about being "cool". It's about not being ignorant to new ideas and different styles of driving.

........ I must say holding a controlled drift is definitely a skill.......... If anything you learn a few new things your car is capable of.

What is not cool is the 90% of the idiots that try and do drifts around corners at local meets.......... I know you run some drift sessions in racecity Rage........but up here we have too many idiots that think Jasper Ave is the place to throw it left/hard right and then WOW the bystanders with a half assesed attempt.

I am sure you have heard of accidents/close calls from some of your locals trying out there mad skillz.

The fact is we don't have the facilities for them to try this. I am not sure if the Solo2 guys would be to excited about seeing guys drifting around the course...........

.......and the reality is that in the younger crowd. "Drifting is cool" it has nothing to do with developing better driving skills. (Complete generalization that applies to 90%)




P.S ..............auggh.......... I can't believe the roads were clear and now there is a half a foot of snow on the ground and its still coming !!!!!!!!!! You have to love Alberta weather....

[Z-man]

Originally posted by rage2
It's not about being "cool". It's about not being ignorant to new ideas and different styles of driving.

Ok dude - hold on a second there. I am open to different driving venues - just because I don't do it myself doesn't mean that I'm ignorant. I have respect for everyone who is involved in most forms of motorsport.

Don't tell me that I'm ignorant to new ideas just because I don't want to drift my 944S2. You feel that drifting is the newest, latest, best form of motorsport. Kudos to you. While I find it interesting, I prefer my autox and hot lapping at the racetracks over getting my car to go sideways.

Side note: most drifters do admit that their sport is more show - that drifting is NOT the fastest way around the track.

Like ae1969 said above, I don't have respect for the bozos who attempt to drift on the streets, much like I have no respect for street racers. But that's a different story altogether.

What's next, you're gonna call me an old fart?!?
-Z.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Z-man
Ok dude - hold on a second there. I am open to different driving venues - just because I don't do it myself doesn't mean that I'm ignorant. I have respect for everyone who is involved in most forms of motorsport.

I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to bryanthompson and his ignorant comment.

Originally posted by Z-man
Side note: most drifters do admit that their sport is more show - that drifting is NOT the fastest way around the track.

All drifters will admit that. It's the wannabe forum kids that watched Fast and the Furious too many times that think drifting is faster .

[rage2]

Originally posted by ae1969
The fact is we don't have the facilities for them to try this. I am not sure if the Solo2 guys would be to excited about seeing guys drifting around the course...........

We actually started our drifting on the autox courses. A few of us hardcore solo2'ers have been talking about doing drifting for 2 years before we got our asses in gear and organized something away from solo2. Ask your local club about it, that's what we did, they didn't mind it (as long as we didn't knock down every cone) and that's how we got started with the experimenting.

Originally posted by ae1969
P.S ..............auggh.......... I can't believe the roads were clear and now there is a half a foot of snow on the ground and its still coming !!!!!!!!!! You have to love Alberta weather....

haha I know what you mean. I had to turn down the boost again .