Automatic problems/buyers advice, can a 924S manual engine be used

[asudds]

OK, heres the deal... I just got a 924S parts car that is a manual tranny and needs work that I was going to use for parts for my 924S...

BUT... I also came across a 86 944 automatic that needs a motor (spun #2 rod bearing I think)... So this may make a good car for my wife... who is still learning to drive a manual. It has about 100,000 miles on it.

1. Anything wrong with the auto cars that I should beware of? How can you check the flex disc?? Anything else go wrong with the auto??

2. Can I use the 1987 924S manual tranny engine in the 1986 944 auto?? Any differeneces in the automatic engines?

3. How so you tow a 944 auto?? Can you tow with a dollie?

4. What is a fair price for this 944 auto with a bad engine?

5. Lastly, what is a good 944 auto worth??

Any help or insight is welcomed.

TIA

Aaron
atsudds@cogeco.ca

[924RACR]

Greetings and welcome from across the river!

To check the flex disc, you can inspect it pretty well by removing the starter; I just got one with a shredded disc, and that was the easiest way to check it. There may also be some ability to see it by removing an access cover on the bellhousing, but either will require getting under the car.

I would expect the engines could be interchanged, but not 100% sure - perhaps someone else out there could confirm.

I'm not sure I'd want to tow an auto with a tow dolly, not sure you'd get adequate lubrication, but that could be OK for a short distance/low speeds (like across town).

[Razorback1980]

I just bought an automatic for my daughter that turns 16 in October. After doing some research, here is what I found. The automatic is made by audi if I remember correctly and seems to be fairly reliable according to the owners I talked to with the exception of the plate you already mentioned. The biggest downfall from what I was told is that it is a 3 speed with no overdrive so the engine runs at a higher rpm to get the same speed and after buying one, I agree. It's very low geared on the top end. For the type driving my daughter is going to be doing, I was okay with that but definitely not something to take to a track with any straight aways at all.

As for prices for one with a bad engine...I'm not sure but I can tell you that I bought mine for 1800 with everything good except a battery and some minor problems that needed to be fixed such as the brake pad light was on, sunroof doesn't work correctly..I'm guessing gears but I haven't got that far yet, normal interior wear such as cracked dash, etc. I have seen others around the 2000 range for the same type car. It appears that automatics are less popular than 5 speeds so the purchase price is generally just a little less.

They towed my car home, but they did it on a flatbed truck, I'm not sure about any other towing methods.

As for if the engines are any different than a 5 speed. Not that I know of and there are many posts on converting autos to 5 speeds with a lot of comments from a lot of people smarter than I am about these cars. Probably good to look at some of those. The differences are pretty small but in some strange places such as the instrument cluster is different. There are other differences as well and they are covered in the other posts I referenced.

Hope this helps....

[asudds]

I saw a post about replacing the flexdisc with a clutch and flywheel from a manual... I assume this may work with the clutch never wearing since you aren't cycling it. I could use an old clutch and PP from my 924S with a spring center.

What exactly does the flexdisc do?? has anyone experineced using this type of set-up in place of a flexdisc?

[944 Ecology]

Teach your wife to drive a stick. Better than having her drive an automatic.

[SoCal Driver]

Replacing the flex disk with a clutch unit may, on second thought, not be practical. This will depend on wither the end of the drive shaft will sit at the right location. There is a snap ring on it's end between the flex disk and the flywheel unit. This locates and restrains the drive shaft from pushing the torque converter into the transmission. The input shaft on the manual trans possitions the drive shaft.

Interesting that there is a pilot bearing in the end of the automatics engines crank. Never really been used as the crank and the drive shaft turn as one.

The only difference in the same year engines is one has a heavy flywheel while the other (automatic) has a fairly light weight unit.

There is a difference as to replacing the flex disk. You have to unbolt the flex disk from the flywheel and pull the engine leaving the bell housing, flex disk and drive shaft torque tube in the car. This is to get to the clip.

[asudds]

Would the pilot bearing be for when the engine is rotating slightly out of phase with the tranny.. ie when shifting and dropping into gears etc... or to say it less technically for when the flex disk flexes under torque and the shaft rotates relative to the crank.

I'll dig into it more...

Can anyone answer the question as to whether I can tow a 944 auto on a dolly with the car in neutral for any distance.. its about a 2.5hour trip at highway speeds

[944 Ecology]

Towing: Not recommended. If you must, tow it backwards, with the front wheels on the ground. Lock the steerng wheel in a straight position, and it should track properly.

Better yet, use a flatbed tow truck.

[asudds]

Towing backwards it is...

[Techno Duck]

Towing will overheat the tranny, says explicitly not to do so in the owners manual for my 924S. I would flat bed it like George said.

The engine is not any different. The only major difference is the throttle cable, which has an extra portion for the kickdown feature on the automatic. I would personally swap the manual tranny and working engine into the 944, however you do not have any provision for the speedometer in the 944 (which needs an electric pickup on the tranny).

[asudds]

Manual Tranny cars can be towed ok though correct??

[944 Ecology]

Should be OK for short tows. I would not recommend flat towing any 944 for 2 and a half hours.

[JTFormula]

I have a question about the flex disc:

I have an automatic 84 944. Since I have been getting the run around from everyone who wanted a cheap Porsche but doesn't want to buy, I am thinking about fixing the car now. Here is the problem -

When I start the car, it make a terrible clicking or tapping noise like a bad lifter or rod knock but its coming from the trans. When you put it in gear the car stutters like crazy and stalls like a converter locking up with the brakes on. If I tach the RPMs up, I can move the car but at idle to about 2000 rpms it will lock up and stall. Since you were just saying the flex plate is a typical problem area on these cars, is the problem that occurs or am I having another problem with the transmission or converter? Thanks!

[Zero10]

As for towing an automatic, lift the back end. That would solve the transmission lubrication problem. Just lock the steering wheel.

If the tow dolly is too high, see about getting all 4 wheels off the ground.
I suppose if you wanted to, you could pull the CV shafts and then you wouldn't have to worry.

I used to like the automatics until I learned that they were a 3 speed. That really turned me off of them.

As far as swapping the motor goes, it's possible, no real problem. Just remove the flywheel from the manual, and bolt on everything from the automatic.

[SoCal Driver]

Originally posted by JTFormula
I have a question about the flex disc:...

The only automatic I have seen that had a severed flex disk made quite a racket. If a severed flex disk lets the drive shaft move rearward then the torque converter is hitting the housing on the trans. Not good.

[nynor]

swap out the automatic drive train for the manual drive train. who wants an automatic?!

[asudds]

I don't want an automatic... but would put my wife's mind at ease if she could commute in a auto instead of a manual... Basically be a daily commuter... can't beat the price if I already have an engine to drop in.

If I were to do a manual convert from the 924S how would you get the speedo to work?? Does the 924S 5spd have the bung for the speed sensor? Does the auto use the same speed sensor? Is the dash gauge pod the same? I could likely just plug the cooler in the rad for the auto and strip out the tranny cooler lines... swap in the manual tranny and shifter and linkage... etc. DME and wiring seem to be the same...

Any help would be cool in that respect as well...

Aaron

[924RACR]

I was about to do the conversion myself, as I have over 50% of the big parts. The thing that dissuaded me was first and foremost, the different bracketry on the trans tunnel for the auto (larger opening and brackets underneath that would need to be cut away to make room for the manual torque tube, or swapped by welding in a section from a manual car).

[carsontc]

todd84944 has done this conversion...but Scott, you must know if a 1987 924S 5 speed has an electronic speedometer sensor like the late 944 does (hope Todd chimes in)

[todd84944]

I'm here. The tranny out of the 924S does not not have the drive for the speedo for the late car. I have not done this, but I have been told that you can put the pick-up, and the pulse unit on a 924S tranny for a late car. The tranny in the 924S is the same tranny as in the 88 944 and the ROW cars, so I'm sure that this can probley be done. George, what you say you???
The engines in the auto cars and the 5 -speed cars are the same. Like you were told before, you will have to swap out the flywheel though. The auto to 5-speed conversion is not that bad. Don't worry about the auto car not having the lip for the inner boot. IF.... you make sure that you put the big insulation piece in, you will not have any air or heat coming up. I usually put the inner boot on, just pull it down over the shifter more. The conversion is pretty much a bolt in operation. The only cutting you will have to do is the brackets from the automatic car that hold the auto shifter in. The shifter rod for the 5-speed will not have enough room to move. As far as the out boot, make sure you get the trim piece from the 5-speed car. One good thing about using the tranny out of the 924S is the 5th gear. It pulls so much stronger, but your mileage will go down some. At 80, you will be cruisng at around 3300 rpm instead of the 3k.
Anymore question let me know. I plan on sitting down soon and doing a compete write-up on doing the automatic to 5-speed conversion.