Clutch pedal stays down - any ideas on how to fix?

[djulio]

Hi all. New to the forum. I have an 85.5 944 I bought new. I have about 76k miles on it now and it still looks good except for a dent on the right side from someone backing into it in a parking lot (of course they did not take responsibility and leave any contact info.)

I have read other posts and it seems like there are some very helpful and knowledgable folks here. My big issue right now is my clutch. Thought I would take a stab at my intermittent problem with the clutch pedal. Sometimes when I press the clutch in, the pedal stays downs. I have to put my foot under the pedal and make it come back up.

Interestingly enough, the clutch does disengage when I take my foot off the pedal so I can continue driving. If I press on the pedal while it is stuck in the down position, the clutch engages and I can shift. Makes shifting quite fast! However, I do not like this "feature" at all. Any ideas on how I can fix it?

Thanks!

djulio

[Razorback1980]

Check your brake fluid, you will probably find it low. You have air in the hydraulic clutch lines because either the clutch master cylinder or the slave cylinder are leaking. It's usually best to replace them at the same time but if you want to figure out which one is leaking then look in your floorboard for a liquid (yes, when it leaks it puts brake fluid right on your carpet!)...if it's wet, then it's the master leaking. If there is a small puddle on the pavement, it's the slave leaking. Like I said though...if one has gone, then the other probably isn't far behind. Replace the cylinders and bleed the clutch hydraulic system...problem gone.

Good Luck

[djulio]

Tom,

Thanks for the tip. I'll check it out in the morning.

djulio

[mambodave]

Slave cylinder could be bad... Mine was on my 44 when I had it

[Panzer909]

Yep - leaking fluid on the pedals indicates a failing master cylinder. Leaking fluid under the car indicates a failing slave. Check this first. If both check out......as well as the brake fluid level, then your system needs bled. I had a bad slave cylinder last summer and it stuck intermittently just like yours afterwards. Bled it again and the problem went away.

[djulio]

Well there are no leaks and the fluid is in the normal range so it appears the system needs to be bled as Panzer909 indicates. Thanks for the insight.

djulio

[Eldorado]

mine had no visible leaks, and both my cylinders were bad... they just didn't hold pressure.. dont know how this happened, but it did... no amount of bleeding fixed it for me, I had to replace both cylinders.. you may run into the same problem.

[IXLOR8]

I just did this project last week.

My slave was bad. It was dripping down the outside of the starter.

Please be very careful with removal of the steel line. This line is about $90. Not available in the US. It has to come from Germany.

The hose is about $35.00. These are easy to get.

Bleeding of the system is a little tricky.

Good Luck!

[Razorback1980]

If you need a line, send me a PM and we'll find you one here in the us at a recycler. That's not a part you should have to buy new. The hose part should be new, but not a steel line.

[djulio]

Thanks for the replies. I looked up my records and I have had the slave replaced (like 10 years ago) but not the master. So even without leaks, it is not holding pressure. Strange! Anyone have step by step instructions for changing out the master, slave, and bleeding the clutch?

Can a non-seasoned mechanic like me do it? I can change oil, did a Rabbit CV joint replacement, and changed the timing belt and water pump on my Del Sol, but that is the extent of my mechanical experience on cars.

[Eldorado]

I'm a non-seasoned mechanic, and did it in my driveway with a buddy on a hot summer day in about 4 hours including drink, ice cream, and lunch breaks. very simple job.

check out www.clarks-garage.com for a step-by-step procedure..

[Razorback1980]

If you can do timing belts, you can do this one. Go for it!

[djulio]

LOL! The timing belt procedure took me two full days to do. I could not break the big bolt on the crankshaft! I guess I'll give it a go.

[speedracing944]

Originally posted by Razorback1980
Check your brake fluid, you will probably find it low. You have air in the hydraulic clutch lines because either the clutch master cylinder or the slave cylinder are leaking. It's usually best to replace them at the same time but if you want to figure out which one is leaking then look in your floorboard for a liquid (yes, when it leaks it puts brake fluid right on your carpet!)...if it's wet, then it's the master leaking. If there is a small puddle on the pavement, it's the slave leaking. Like I said though...if one has gone, then the other probably isn't far behind. Replace the cylinders and bleed the clutch hydraulic system...problem gone.

Good Luck

Razor,
I now have 150K miles on my '83. I have had to replace the slave 2 times but the master is still the original and my pedal still feels great. I am not sold on the idea of replacing both at the same time (slave and master).

Speedy

[Razorback1980]

When mine started leaking, I found both of mine to be bad. Eldorado did as well. You are right, you certainly don't have to and it's a personal choice I guess. I just have maintenance schedules for my car and sometimes I probably do replace parts that don't need to be....but I HATE being stranded on the side of the road. It's kind of like radiator hoses...if one breaks, do you replace both (I say yes some say no)...in that case I don't wait for either one to break, I replace them on a 2 year interval when I do my belts. Do I need to?..maybe not but one tow or an overheated engine is much worse than just replacing them on an interval. In 35 years of driving, I've never been stranded on the road...you know what's going to happen now, don't you? Man, I hate it when that happens! These cylinders aren't exactly the same as they are a longer wear item, but I just apply those same principles to any wear part. Tires, wiper blades, batteries, etc. I just think walking sucks...especially in the rain or the heat...I guess I just want to do it on my schedule instead of the parts schedule. Seems like things always break when it's least convenient for me. Nothing wrong with your philosophy, you are just not as lazy as I am I guess.

The bad thing about this particular part is that I have heard some of the replacements don't really last too long. Since they are not cheap parts, I think that's a shame. I don't have a manual any longer or I would probably look into rebuilding my own...or finding a reliable replacement outside the Porsche parts. They are only hydraulic cylinders and there are a lot of vendors that sell the same or similar items. Porsche didn't build them, they are someone's stock parts somewhere.

Anyway, I don't think either of us are wrong, I just think we have different philosophies about car maintenance. I also had this fear inside that one day I would step on my clutch and it would fall to the floor and not disengage. I think that would be a bad day there!

djulio...key to that bolt is a breaker bar with a very long pipe! Also, as you have read Speedy doesn't agree with the "change both" philosophy and that guy knows his way around the 944, so maybe you should think about what you want to do there. I think that depends on your car maintenance philosophy. Replacing one is definitely an option for you.

[Eldorado]

Tom, you forgot Snow, hail, sleet, and freezing rain under your list of bad weather

I replaced both cylinders about a year and a half ago... and they're on their way out again... i can feel it in the pedal... damn parts...

[Razorback1980]

Snow, hail, freezing rain...what are those? I would REALLY be p***** off if I was stranded in the snow. That might actually be grounds for selling my car! Again, there isn't a wrong answer, it's a philosophy thing. Many times budgets play a large part of that decision.

Eldorado, I think I read where Vinney found a place to buy nonPorsche parts that he said held up real well. Might be worth an email to see if I remember correctly or I'm going senile!

OT..hey Kyle, check out ultimate-guitar.com yet. Make sure you click the part that tells you where to put your fingers to get the right chord. Learn G, C, D first..that will get you 50 percent of all songs...then we'll move on to A and E and the others. If you play one instrument, having individual finger control will help you along a lot. I remember when I was learning, I couldn't move one finger without moving the rest. I could draw you maps on which finger goes on which dot if you want....that is the only thing that site doesn't show you.

[djulio]

Razor,

If I understand right, replacing the slave only does not require a full clutch system bleed. Is that right? How do I tell if it is just the slave or master that is bad since I do not have any leaks?

Also, I see you talking guitar. I love to play. My main players are a Godin LGXT electric guitar with synth out/acoustic built in, 70's era Ibanez electric, 70's Yamaha FG-340 acoustic, and Cort acoustic electric. It is my main hobby.

Thanks for the help.

Dale

[Razorback1980]

Hey Dale,

No, if you open up any part of a hydraulic system, you have to bleed it to get the air out. If you replace a hydraulic cylinder for the clutch system the new cylinder will be full of air and the line will fill with air when you take it off the old part. Really, anytime you work on the brake or clutch hydraulic system, you'll have to bleed it to get the air out. Make sure you don't have any leaks on the master as it is hard to detect sometimes for a while. check the pedal and the carpet very well. They USUALLY leak somewhere and if your fluid was low, then you definitely have a leak as that is a closed system and should never be low unless there is a leak somewhere. If you do indeed have no leaks, I'm not sure how you would tell which one it is. There has to be a way to check the pressure of the master as you step on the pedal and see if it's strong enough and if it's weak pressure there, then it would be the master. If the pressure were good there, then the slave would be the problem. If you don't have or want to buy one of those gauges, then it's a guessing game unless someone has a good diagnostic procedure. Check with clarks-garage.com and see what they say. I've seen people try to block the line with their thumb to see if it's good. Of course if it is, they get a bath in brake fluid! I just thought of something...how are your brakes? If they are the ones leaking, the fluid would get low as well and the clutch would do the same thing. I bet it's the clutch though.

I love to (I guess you could call it) play as well. I play for my own enjoyment and if you ever hear me play, you'll know why it's ONLY for my enjoyment! Kyle just received a new guitar for Christmas. What a girlfriend this guy must have to be so thoughtful. Looks like you have some nice stuff there. I have a Fender strat with a Marshall amp and a Yamaha FG-340 acoustic. Wow, you have good taste. That's all I have for guitars although I have a sax and electric piano as well. I want a Les Paul, but instead I have this Porsche that takes all my money! But I love Porsches too.

[djulio]

Tom,

I just remembered that my Dad took the car for a while and when he had it the left front brake leaked. They took it to a repair shop to get it fixed. He did tell me that the clutch pedal sometimes stuck down when I got it back from him.

The brake fluid level is fine and the brakes work well. The clutch problem is intermittent so it only happens every once in a while. Could it be as simple as an out of adjustment spring or they did not bleed the system well so that it only happens once in a while?

I like the Fender Strat. But if I could choose, I, too, would get a Les Paul. Maybe one day. I do play lead guitar for a praise band for the 20 something crowd every Thursday night. I do not excel at it but I can do what needs to get done.

My FG-340 is worn out. I need to replace the frets and repair the fingerboard. I made some deep dimples in some places on the fingerboard. It was my first guitar. I bought it in 1978.

Take care,

Dale