911 brakes on 944

[svandamme]

Just happen to have some 3.2 brake calipers from an 85, 3.2 Carrera... and they aren't fetching to much on the second hand market...

just realized, my 85 944 has these 1 piston calipers up front
and these Carrera Calipers are 2 pistons...


is this a bolt on upgrade??

it looks to me like it would, but unsure if there's something else i need to keep in mind, like brake bias or something

i do have the rear calibers from that 911 as well ... but those don't look as beefy...


anybody has any suggestions??

[JivenJim]

Not sure on the 911's. The Big Reds come from the Turbo's (930's, 993) so I would think if its a stock 944, you would need the 944 Turbo or 944S package spindal equal bracket adapters. Offsets should fit since wheels work on both.

http://www.lindseyracing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LR&Product_Code=LR-8788-BRCA

[svandamme]

they're not big reds, they're ordinary Carrera Calipers, big reds have 4 pistons per caliper if i'm not mistaken, these are 2 per caliper
and not nearly as big as Big Reds...

i'm pretty sure they would bolt on without any hastle, it's the bias that i wonder about, i presume i need to mount fronts and backs, not just the fronts, or else the bias will shift to much to the front?

[Steve PH]

Some slightly random thoughts on the matter.

Not sure bias will be much of an issue, the Willwood four pot kits sold for use on early 944s dont (I believe) require any change at the rear of the car. Lets face it even though a 944 has 50/50 balance when static, under heavy braking it becomes more 70/30 (Front/Rear). Bias is only really a concern if the rears lock up under heavy braking, which is rather unlikely.

Bigger factors would be wether it takes signifigantly more brake fluid to move the pistons in a two pot compared to the sliding calipers but I suspect that the master cylinder is well up to the job, depends on the size of the individual pistons (can't imagine that they are that enormous! that they would make a difference).

Does the twin pot caliper really provide much of an advantage over the sliding one? Is the over all surface area of the pistons larger than the area of the single one and are the brake pads them selves bigger?

If you look at the European cars of a similar age group with uprated brakes ie Escorts, Mantas, Capris there seems to be a trend towards old Volvo 4 pots, Austin Princes 4 pots(I kid you not! these are pretty damned rare though) and then maybe Willwood kits.

[svandamme]

Originally posted by Steve PH
Bigger factors would be wether it takes signifigantly more brake fluid to move the pistons in a two pot compared to the sliding calipers but I suspect that the master cylinder is well up to the job, depends on the size of the individual pistons (can't imagine that they are that enormous! that they would make a difference).

the 911 Master cyllinder does come with a brake booster,so does the 944's

nevertheless my early 911 didn't have a booster, and it did have 2 pistons per caliper.. it worked fine, albeit heavy work

Originally posted by Steve PH


Does the twin pot caliper really provide much of an advantage over the sliding one? Is the over all surface area of the pistons larger than the area of the single one and are the brake pads them selves bigger?

advantage, i'm thinking it's a better design , my 44 sometimes has em sticking, and squeeling, even after everything was well lubricated with caliper grease on all parts that can be greased...which i believe is due to the sliding design of the caliper, forces are not applied symmetrical like on the 911's caliper...

it's also my idea to start rallying with this car, and seems like a cheap upgrade
i don't want to blow loads of cash to get big reds, which frankly i think wouldn't be allowed in classic rally's , 911 85 breaks are still , period correct...

[Steve PH]

Assuming you already have the 911 calipers, then I suggest you pull your wheels and original calipers off and see how the twin pots fit. You might have to get adaptors made up to get the older calpier to fit the original brackets.

Good luck!

Would be interesting to here your findings, curious to see if this would be a big improvment.

[Rick V]

You need to also see if they will fit over your rotors, and under your wheels. A few 1/100th if an inch can ruin your whole day. I expect that if this upgrade was a true bolt on, someone would have marketed it by now. Maby you have come across something overlooked. Let us know. You can always remove your caliper and hang it out of the way, and mount up your Carrera stuff to check for fit.

[Dantilla]

You could give it a try and see if they fit, but they won't offer much, if any, of an upgrade. These were the base model brakes for several years, and a common upgrade for the 911 guys is to switch to 951 brakes. I race a 944 NA, and the stock brakes work great, even on a local course that is notorious for being hard on brakes. After several laps, other car's brakes begin to fade, and us lowly 944 guys start out-braking them.

If you have a specific problem, you should find a specific solution. If they bolt right up, why not give them a try? But if you need to start modifying and fabricating to make them work, you're better off stepping up to a true upgrade.

They're not worth much, because the 911 guys who want to upgrade simply toss them in the trash.

[svandamme]

Originally posted by Dantilla

They're not worth much, because the 911 guys who want to upgrade simply toss them in the trash.

yeah, i gathered that much , get zero response on the local forum ad... they are sold new on ebay for like 150 euro's a pair... they are barely worth their weight in scap iron

if you say your NA brakes are that good, i'll just leave it as is for the time being .. if i do run in to problems i can rethink options at that time...