*Almost* timing failure

bholmes · bholmes's Garage

I have been keeping a pretty good eye on my timing belt and the tension has been kept up and the like. I was driving and I noticed an odd sound, like a sqeak of a bearing going out in an alternator or something. I also noticed a knock, sounded like a rod knock, but irratic and would stop with increased rpm. So I pulled over and the sound was coming from the top end, I put my hand on the cam cover and felt a knocking! I inmediatly shut it down and had my buddy get the trailer and we trailered it home. Turns out the timing belt eccentric tensioner failed big time. I thought it was out of adjustment, but it wasn't tightening right so i took ahold of it and it came off in my hand with out removing the lock nut. So needles to say I'll be down till I get a new one. I am considering swiping the tensioner from my balance shaft belt until I can get a new one in, are they the same part? I haven't checked part numbers yet. Is there another bearing eccentric insert that will work? Anyone want to donate one? PM me!
Any input/sujestions/solutions are welcome.
Part # 944-105-127-03

Icey1174 · 05-30-2007, 07:50 PM

Glad to hear you saved it! Sorry to hear you'll be down for a little while. If I had one I would over night it to you!

bholmes · bholmes's Garage

Looks like the balance shaft and timing belts have different eccentrics. At least price isn't to bad, it's just the down time :/

nynor · 05-30-2007, 08:00 PM

the question is: how are you going to set it to TDC without that part?

Icey1174 · 05-30-2007, 08:07 PM

Take the cam off, set the crank to TDC, LOCK IT, put the cam back on at TDC... Order a new cam housing gasket and the rear tower gasket while you have the cam off.

Just did the job, it's not too bad. Just give yourself plenty of time.

NO more oil leaks, and a couple new pieces for the timing belt.

nynor · 05-30-2007, 08:13 PM

ahh... GOOD answer!

Icey1174 · 05-30-2007, 08:13 PM

Change the oil and fliter, do some degreasing... do you need a new water pump too? While you're in there... lol...

bholmes · bholmes's Garage

LOL, need or want a water pump? I want one while i'm in there, but I can't afford it. I replace parts on a failure basis at this point in life. When my water pump fails, I'll pull over and trailer it home. As for setting TDC, not a problem, been there done that. I think I may order one tonight and have it second day air shipped so I can fix it over the weekend.
Cheers!

nynor · 05-30-2007, 09:40 PM

the problem with that is that the waterpump has a high likelihood of taking your belt with it. ask me how i know...

bholmes · bholmes's Garage

How do you know?

bholmes · bholmes's Garage

Just being funny...or atleast trying. So when the water pump fails does it not do the ol' dribble dribble that they typically do? Are they usually a bearing seisure rather than a seal failure? Typically cars I've worked on in the past usually have tell tale signs the pump is exspiring, like chirping and weeping out the weep hole etc. I'm assuming yours just made a mess with out warning. Tell me more.

nynor · 05-30-2007, 09:54 PM

well, the shaft of the pump was worn and began to angle downward. this chewed the edge of the belt, eventually seizing the belt while the crank continued to turn. stripped belt, and 5 bent valves. i did all the work myself and was still into it about $1200.

nynor · 05-30-2007, 09:58 PM

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=194044&highlight=bent+valves

bholmes · bholmes's Garage

Nice, very nice. Something to keep in mind for sure. At the moment I don't have 250-300 for a pump, hard to get parts w/o money LOL. But I'll certainly do my best to check the pump for wear like this. Thanks for describing it well so I know what to look for and I'll be sure to replace it when my wife or I one gets a job again. Sorry bout your luck though. Was this on the turbo that you had the bent valves? I bet prices were out landish for the valves! Thanks for the advice.

Zero10 · 05-31-2007, 12:12 AM

As for the TDC issue....
Pull #1 spark plug, insert dowel.
Turn until piston is at the mid-point of it's travel.
Rotate cam to TDC, then turn engine such that #1 piston is moving upwards, until it reaches TDC (~90* of rotation).
Now your engine is back in time.

As for the failure, where did all your roller bearings go? Bet you'll find them all in the bottom of the timing belt housing.

You are darn lucky, like when I pulled the belt covers for an inspection on the 951 2 weeks ago, and found a bolt sitting on the water pump pulley..... Had a nice groove worn in the pulley it had been there so long. Every now and then, between the catastrophic failures, we get lucky.

Icey1174 · 05-31-2007, 04:26 AM

Does the cam need to come off to set TDC? Seeing as how it is no longer timed with the crank? Or is the mild collision and pushing on the valves by the pistons acceptable of under the minimal stess of hand cranking the crank? Or will any pushing of the piston cause minimal damage to the valves?

I like to be safe than sorry. I would take the cam off first, set the crank to TDC, lock it, then set the cam to TDC and put it back on. I would also get the cam housing gasket out of the way. I think it's $9. Mine was shot when I took it off. It came off in over 100 different crumbling pieces.

bholmes · bholmes's Garage

Zero, you had better believe I was lucky! I'm not sure where the bearings went off to. I'm bettin they are still in the cam housing as well. I need to inspect things good before reassembly.

As for timing, I don't think it will be out to much unless the cam has moved some on it's own since I pulled the gear off. But I'm bettin I can put the gear back on when I get the new one, rotate them cam to the timing mark, hold it there and then remove the tension and rotate the crank as it should be only a few degrees out as it. This would prevent valve to piston contact. It may not be as easy as I hope but we'll see. Should have the parts by this weekend. I only hope it's the only pully that HAS to be replaced as I just don't have money for any more right now. Once I get some sort of financial influx I'll do all the tensioners, rollers and water pump.

Cheers

87944turbo · 05-31-2007, 07:24 AM

Quote:

At the moment I don't have 250-300 for a pump, hard to get parts w/o money LOL.

There is a place (not Pelican) that sells remanufactured pumps for $86 with a two year warranty, $100 refundable core charge.

hpaulb · 05-31-2007, 08:49 AM

For anyone that doesn't know were there timing is, the idea stated above covers all. With all 4 pistons mid travel, i.e. half way up. There is no way anything will hit/bind. You can move the cam to any position without fear. Set your front end on all it's marks and move your #1 piston to TDC and done.
You had better check all your bearings! If that one was completely disintrigated, bet the others are about to go. Just spin them freely and listen for the dry/worn bearing wine. Same goes for the water pump. There is only a bearing and a seal like every other car.

bholmes · bholmes's Garage

I still don't have the money, LOL I now owe my grandpa $10 that I didn't have to pay shipping when I order the timing tensioner. However, what is the site that has the remanufactured pumps? Sounds pretty descent to me. Like I say, it's pretty high up on my to-do list. Thanks for the info.