Is my clutch's master cylinder dead? (Pics)

[exitwound]

Driving home the last two days, I've noticed the clutch pedal not returning to its full position. It would return only as far as being in gear, but the pedal wouldn't bounce any further back than that. I could shift alright. The clutch would disengange and engage perfectly, only, the pedal was far closer to the floor than normal.

Today, as I go to move the car from the road into the driveway to have a look, I have no pedal at all. It's on the floor with no resistance going to and from in and out positions. It feels as if the spring mechanism is working, but there's absolutely no pressure required to move it to either end.

Also, there's fluid in my footwell. I have a new master cylinder that I was talked out of installing when the engine wasn't in the car . Why?? I HAVE NO FLIPPIN IDEA! I'm so angry at this point.

Is my master cylinder the culprit here? We've already changed out the slave cylinder. How can I check which may be at fault and how can I be sure it's not the clutch disc and fork and such?

Edit: Upon looking at the picture more closely, is the rubber boot around the cylinder torn and leaking??

[markt944]

looking at those pics it nackered!

Its leaking fluid and gettin air in the system it will get to the point when u will have no clutch no gear changes

If u bleed the system u might get the clutch back for a few days

U should be able to rebuild with new seals provided the bore is still good ,but seeing u have a new one uv got no choice othe than to fit it

Mark

[TNT25169]

You should have done it with the engine out of the car. One of the bolts is a PITA to get to IIRC. I did mine a few years ago and it was simple and straight forward but frustrating due to the wrenching angles. Good Luck.

[exitwound]

What's the estimated time to do the job? 2 hours? 4 hours? A weekend? Just hoping to eliminate possibilities of being without a vehicle for an extended amt of time.

All parts from pelican (minus the clutch hose) are going to be "shipping in X days" which means I'm probably without a car for a while. Nice.

[TNT25169]

It could be done it 2 hours but I would allow 4 with frustration, snags and lacking patience but that's just me.

[Aslet]

Also, if you account for the time it will take you to beat up the person who told you not to put it in before, you may want to add an hour or so.

[flash968]

yes - dead - this happens a lot - they are only supposed to last 5-8 years anyway

if you haven't already, change the high pressure hose at the same time, or you will be back in there very soon

[exitwound]

What parts should I be looking at for this install? I have a new master cylinder (#12). I don't have it here at the house though. Does it have the new boot (called Bellows in the diagram) with it on a new one? I'd think it'd have to. I can't remember though.



Which is the high-powered side, #22?

Do master cylinders typically die at this speed? Within 2 days, all functioning was lost. I figured it would be a spectacular blowout when it finally did die, just going to the floor and staying there. It was much less drastic though.

[flash968]

#22 for sure if you haven't done it yet

#18 too - might come with the master - might not

#21 if it is hardened - if it has gotten hard over time (common) failure to replace that can make for an air leak that will prevent bleeding

take a look at #15 - if it's intact, you're fine - if not, then that too

#13 (the bellows) should come with the new master, and in fact should not be removed - if not, then it should be replaced if there are any tears or cracks in it

[Dark Skies]

With the car jacked to a decent height (to bleed the system) and the front seat removed (unless you like doing handstands) the job ought not to take more than an hour. It's very straightforward.

[TNT25169]

Taking out the seat? That's the easy way and it makes entirely too much sense to do it that way...

[exitwound]

I just replaced the seats. I am an expert in getting those pesky holes lined up and the heavy lifting needed. I can do it!... but probably not until the weekend. It's still backbreaking work to get under the dash.

[HondaDustR]

If you have a back like a slinky and are thin, then it's easy to get under there. I don't know how it goes otherwise.
Also, a 3/8 in drive U-joint makes getting at the MC bolts much easier, but it's still tedious to get them started on reassembly.
Believe it or not, I actually bled the entire system outside the car (much easier to tilt/turn stuff to really get the air out). The only problem was it was really tricky to maneuver the whole thing back into place, but it was worth it.

[exitwound]

This is the most asinine setup I've ever experienced. there's absolutely no conceivable way that this job could be any harder. I'm ready to take it to a shop to have someone else deal with it just so I dont' have to. I'll pay the $300 for labor to avoid getting TWO nuts off. The clutch is a servicable device that needs to be played with during the life of the car. I cant' believe it's designed to be impossible to work with. Ticks me off.

[exitwound]

Had to invest in some new sockets and such just to get the two firewall nuts off.

But now, I'm stuck. I can't get the hard line removed from the master cylinder. First of all, just to make sure, which way does it thread? Do I turn the wrench towards the passenger or driver's side of the car? It's a 12mm wrench but it doesn't seem like it wants to turn at all. I'm getting no indication that it's budging at all and with the air conditioning and wiring harness in the way, I have no play at all in how I approach the nut.

I have no transportation to get what I need tonight and it's supposed to sleet tomorrow (again), making it impossible for me to actually get any work done on this thing. What began as a 2-3 hour job has now taken nearly 5 and I've gotten practically nowhere. The master cylinder is detached from the pedal, and the firewall (mostly), but i can't disconnect the hard line.

Any help?

[Scuba Steve]

The line is threaded the same way that regular bolts are threaded. Turn it counterclockwise. A cheap set of flared wrenches makes it a lot easier to deal with the hard line.

[HondaDustR]

If you're going to reuse it, be careful that you don't twist off the end of the line. The nut tends to get stuck on the actual line and the line will turn with the nut unless you are careful to work it back and forth to free the nut from the line. It seems simple, but I just wanted to say it, since I got stuck at a friends house with a dead slave, got a rebuild kit and would've gotten the car home that day except that I broke the hard line off right at the nut 'cause I couldn't see what was happening up there...haven't been that pissed very often.
But the master cyl end is also the half with the rubber hose, and is easily replaceable (and probably should be while you're in there). The other half that I broke is a $120 dealer only part. Luckily there was enough left to put another flare on it and reuse it.

[exitwound]

Thanks for the warning there! I never would have guessed that could happen.