Classic no-start with a twist

[Outback Porsche]

I think you can send your DME to www.944online.com and they will test it for free.

[83Zel944]

Winter Park, FL is a township in unincorporated Orlando. Nice place lots of 2,000+ square feet homes and BMW's, Jags, and Mercedes litter the area. There is one race painted 924 (Powder blue & orange if i remember) in the border area between winter park and Maitland (Howell Branch Rd.) I wonder if anyone here knows the car, i see it at least once a month but always heading the other way.

[TibetanT]

Originally Posted by 83Zel944

Winter Park, FL is a township in unincorporated Orlando. Nice place lots of 2,000+ square feet homes and BMW's, Jags, and Mercedes litter the area. There is one race painted 924 (Powder blue & orange if i remember) in the border area between winter park and Maitland (Howell Branch Rd.) I wonder if anyone here knows the car, i see it at least once a month but always heading the other way.

When you have a free moment, after you get the car running again, check the 944online.com website under customer cars. If I am not mistaken, I saw this car there; powder blue & orange.

[SolReaver]

Originally Posted by TeenerTim

I would be very hesitant to do this. Since the ECU obviously worked before, there is a possibility that some short in his system caused the ECU failure (if it is in fact bad). If you hook yours up to his system it might burn yours out too.

Hooking his ECU to your system is a much safer bet.

Yes placing the ?? ECU in a running car is what I said. Or send it somewhere for testing. Just do SOMETHING guys, this is getting embarrassing. Look folks. Troubleshooting FI is not a black art. It is a logical process for determining what is wrong with one or more components of a system. Has anybody checked for a bad temp sensor? This thread is becoming "cumbersome" and 6 pages is just ridiculous. The Fault is a component or the connections and wiring. Use logic. Eliminate suspect components and move on. There are only so many wires and so many components. each component (except the brain) has a testing procedure int the (RTF) Manual. Send the head out and test the wiring and components while it is away.

FWIW I personally would rather test an ECU in a compatible car rather than send it for testing with someone who has a profit interest in selling you a new or rebuilt ECU. In the (slight) chance it is the ECU, there may be interchange options with Saab, Volvo, Alpha and any other similar L jet brains.

All the wisdom in the world is ultimately useless to a ship of fools

[TibetanT]

This is exactly what I did with a suspect bad ECU/DME brain. ( I took it out of the non-starting car and placed into my running 87 944; the car did not start so I knew it was bad. )

[83Zel944]

Well I'd like to thank everyone who has taken the time to help me along the way. I know that when I get this issue resolved this post will serve as a helpful post for the person with the same issues that i have in the future. This will also help to reduce the re-posting of the same question answered thousands of times in previous posts. In this thread I have posted hard repeatable results from my tests. Sites like 944 don't always have posts that offer actual results. just works or doesn't. I have included where evident correction values in my reading. This thread has added value to the community.

I for one have searched endlessly through the Pelican, Clark's, and 944online to find the answer before I ever posted one question. I have read as far back as one can go on all three sites. Not every posting but many, many that have come up. I found that the best posts and the most informative are those, like mine, where people have offered advice and the seeker of knowledge has tried it then confirmed or unconfirmed the the thoughts of those who have been there before him. Those who lambaste a thread or belittle a poster do more to render a thread useless and drive away people who could otherwise provide usable answers.

Then again since when did we elect a thread nazi to determine that a particular thread has grown beyond its imaginary allowable length. I feel lucky that I have such a willing group of enthusiasts to help me. I will be doing the same whenever i can.

[earlr85944]

"All the wisdom in the world is ultimately useless to a ship of fools"

but it is invaluable to those in a yellow submarine

[83Zel944]

As a quick note I tested resistance between pins 14 and 15 on the DME connector and they read 2.4ohms - DMM internal resistance of .2 ohms. To me that sounds pretty high. perhaps the wires are grounding together somewhere. What do you all think?

[92 944]

when checking resistances remember you are checking "off load" ie using the multimeter battery only --this can lead to false readings especially when wires are old or contacts corroded
It can be worth checking continuity with a 12 volt battery -supply 12 volts to one end of the wire you are checking and check for 12 volts with the meter -expect almost zero volts drop -even better use a bulb at the other end as this now check the wire "on load"
often I have found the continuity is good ohms wise with a meter and volts drop very small ,but a bulb fails to light up - due a high resistance in the circuit

[TibetanT]

I can certainly tell that you are like me, a terrier. I don't give up until the solution is found, which at times is very frustrating.

I spent 1.5 years troubleshooting my first restoration 944, which had a "no-start" condition, so I know how you feel here. I also agree that there IS no limit to the amount of pages it takes to resolve an issue such as this.
( It's Wayne's website and I don't see, or hear him complaining about the amount of pages we are using here to resolve an issue!)

The bottom line is, it helps everyone in the future, period!


The solution is near, however, in view of all the data you have provided. This data, is what, we the Pelican community, will be most grateful for in the long run. It WILL save someone else a lot of time and money to resolve.

Don't give up and keeping posting your results!

[MikeStewart]

Well said 83Zel944.

Its easy to fix things when armed with a garage full of spares and a known good runner in your garage that you can use to experiment on. Its very rare to find someone prepared to investigate problems nowadays and not simply replace parts until it works.


Comments like

"All the wisdom in the world is ultimately useless to a ship of fools" - SolReaver.

are of no use to anyone and has ultimately led to this thread being closed without conclusion. Any comments in subsequent posts will be read bearing your helpful insights in mind.



On a plus side subsequent posts have mentioned that they have bookmarked this thread as a good source of information on no start issues so it must have been appreciated by some. If you want to continue this "offline" then you can get me on email - you too Lapponia we were working well together to try and locate the source.

[SolReaver]

Come on guys! lighten up! I give you a little sarcasm to light a fire under you and you get all whiny on me. I OFFERED to test the ECU for you! I just want this thread to have a happy ending. NOT 6 pages of rambling about theory and possibilities. What do I get for my troubles?... cheap shots....disappointing.

Sorry guys if I offended, I used to make a living as a mechanic, we occasionally say coarse words and drink beer. I was paid to fix things. I was paid for RESULTS. The All the wisdom quote is basically my way of saying that (at this point) you boys are chasing your tails unless you are dealing with a known good ECU which, I offered to freaking check for you! for free! Out of the kindness of my miserable heart! Have you checked it???

I was not putting anyone down or berating anybody. It is called Sarcasm. It is called humor. It is called laughing with you, not at you. Lighten up.

Did ANYBODY check out the Ockhams Razor reference? OK, not to get pedantic here, but, this is a logical theory that can mean many things. Rather than you boys misinterpreting it and getting your panties in a bunch all over again, I will explain.....

USE LOGIC....simplify your problem. KISS. Divide the difficulty.....You have a finite amount of components and wiring. RIGHT??

Something is not working correctly...RIGHT??

Divide the system into parts and determine what parts are working, and what parts are NOT working. you have pretty much tested everything except the ECU...RIGHT? The next step it to jolly well test the ECU or else you are chasing your tails. From here, we have what is known as a Boolean situation. There are two possible results, good, or not good. If not good I am sure that somewhere there is an ECU out there that can be had reasonably. HEC! I will even help you find it! I do not have a warehouse full of spares. I have something better. Years under the hood. I gave you that wisdom when I told you to test the ECU and offered to do it for you. Did you do it???

[TeenerTim]

Any progress? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Outback Porsche]

Originally Posted by 83Zel944

As a quick note I tested resistance between pins 14 and 15 on the DME connector and they read 2.4ohms - DMM internal resistance of .2 ohms. To me that sounds pretty high. perhaps the wires are grounding together somewhere. What do you all think?

This is spot on. Your should expect 2.4 Ohms doing this test. What you are measuring are 2 injectors in parallel + 2 injectors in parallel. If you measure each wire to ground, you should have 1.2 Ohms on each wire (with injectors connected). Each injector has an impedance of 2.4 Ohms. Thus wires are good, and injectors appear ok.

Test the DME.

Cheers

[83Zel944]

It's heading to the mechanic tomorrow. I will update you all with what he says.

[earlr85944]

why not buy a good used dme first? if it turns out its not the problem it is always good to carry a spare.....

[TeenerTim]

????

[83Zel944]

She's at the mechanic.. I have a jerk neighbor who called code enforcement claiming that my car was non-functional & that I was running a car repair business. I don't why I only have one car. Code enforcement then ticketed me while I was away and said move it or loose it..

I'll update as soon as I get info from my P-car guy

[legoland951]

Its amazing how there are A-holes everywhere. Why would one add insult to injury when they know darn well you only have one car and you are working on it diligently to make it run? Anyone who owns a 944 works on their own car at one time or another (or have it broken down to be taken to a shop). If that damn neighbor keeps such a close eye on your car, he/she would know damn well its your only car. Car repair business = many different cars coming in/out and you don't fit that bill. I had to rant because I had a neighbor do that to me and I just pulled out all the titles of all my cars in MY NAME to shut code enforcement up. I asked them whether there is a law against owning multiple cars. To that he had nothing to say.

Sorry to rant but it hit a nerve.

[Schumi]

Wow that's a D-move on the neighbor's part. Time for some anonymous phone tip about kiddie porn next door.