BS happening over on the www.porschehybrids.com board

[speedracing944]

Hello all.

If you don't know the porschehybrids board has long been an open source forum for people interested in converting our beloved 944s over to alternative engines, mainly the LT1 and LS1 Chevy V8s. In the past couple of days long time and well respected members of the hybrid community were banned for rule violations.

The porschehybrids forum is under new management and there is quite a disruption going on right now. Some long time members have now started a new forum and many people from the hybrids community are signing up, including myself.

In the past if you have visited the porschehybrids forum and liked what you saw then come check out the new forum at www.hybrid9s.com

If in the future you are interested in converting your 944 over to Chevy V8 power come on over.

Here are some reads into what is happening...

http://www.porschehybrids.com/php/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3314
http://www.porschehybrids.com/php/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3310
http://www.porschehybrids.com/php/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3309



Speedy

[speedracing944]

I had the wrong link for the new hybrids board. The correct one is www.hybrid9s.com

Speedy

[legion]

The blood!!!

THE BLOOD!!!!


AAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!

[speedracing944]

there is another board which has formed due to the politics happening over on the porschehybrids board.

Come check out
http://944hybrids.forumotion.com/forum.htm

and www.hybrid9s.com

I thing the hybrid9s.com site is catering to all types of engine swaps in all types of vehicles where as the 944hybrids forum will be more oriented toward just the 944 series car. As of now it seems the huge original contributing members of the porsche hybrids board are signed up for both forums.

Both forums are working hard to copy all their information to the new boards.

Stop in and say hi.

Speedy

[halik]

bump,
just went over there and it seems all the other conversion parts manufacturers besides Renegade Hybrids got banned.

[speedracing944]

Just an update...

Renegade Hybrids didn't like other people making a kit which may compete with theirs. So they bought the porschehybrids board and proceeded to ban members and remove threads. Instead of everybody just rolling over, the banned members and virtually everybody else on the original board have started and moved over to www.944hybrids.com domain name.

What has happened on the old board which was taken over by Renegade Hybrids you ask? It is now mostly a ghost town.

For the real scoop on V-8 swapped 944s visit www.944hybrids.com or www.hybrid9s.com

Speedy

[944Spec_bound]

Power to the people!
They should have known, people that have the guts to squeeze a Chevy V8 into a german sports car wouldn't stand being bullied.

[RenegadeHybrids]

This thread opened with describing PorscheHybrids.com as an "open source" forum.

Apparently to some members "open source" meant that they would work together to post the design specifications of existing conversion parts so they could be reverse engineered and sold for less than buying them from the original source. They'd post open solicitations for specifications etc. and with the help of others they'd be supplied.

It eventually culminated with parts being made and sold which was a violation of the existing site rules.

When we contacted the owner of the board, the response was, "I agree with everything you say about the reverse engineering and design infringement that's going on, and I have a solution. I will sell you the board..... and.... You can edit out whatever you want and run it as you see fit."

Our intention was to remove the offending parties, and let the board go on largely as it was because most of the content was constructive and very helpful to conversion enthusiasts. So, two members accounts were deleted and the relevant threads removed. It seemed like a logical solution. Unfortunately, some members found this repressive and a revolt ensued despite assurances that the site would go on being vendor neutral and that valid criticism would be welcome.

Hindsight being 20/20, it could have been handled better. So fast forward, and a few splinter boards have emerged and the 944 conversion world is in a huff.

The notion that this was done because of simple competition is simply not true at all. If someone wants to start with a clean sheet of paper we admire their effort and welcome the competition. Healthy competition drives development and continuous improvement which we fully support. So that wasn't the problem. Anyone who aspires to make these cars faster, more reliable, and more fun is on the same team we are.

Eventually this will all settle down, but in the mean time we wanted everyone to know the facts rather than a bunch of hearsay from people stirring the pot.

[halik]

Originally Posted by RenegadeHybrids

This thread opened with describing PorscheHybrids.com as an "open source" forum.

Apparently to some members "open source" meant that they would work together to post the design specifications of existing conversion parts so they could be reverse engineered and sold for less than buying them from the original source. They'd post open solicitations for specifications etc. and with the help of others they'd be supplied.

It eventually culminated with parts being made and sold which was a violation of the existing site rules.

When we contacted the owner of the board, the response was, "I agree with everything you say about the reverse engineering and design infringement that's going on, and I have a solution. I will sell you the board..... and.... You can edit out whatever you want and run it as you see fit."

Our intention was to remove the offending parties, and let the board go on largely as it was because most of the content was constructive and very helpful to conversion enthusiasts. So, two members accounts were deleted and the relevant threads removed. It seemed like a logical solution. Unfortunately, some members found this repressive and a revolt ensued despite assurances that the site would go on being vendor neutral and that valid criticism would be welcome.

Hindsight being 20/20, it could have been handled better. So fast forward, and a few splinter boards have emerged and the 944 conversion world is in a huff.

The notion that this was done because of simple competition is simply not true at all. If someone wants to start with a clean sheet of paper we admire their effort and welcome the competition. Healthy competition drives development and continuous improvement which we fully support. So that wasn't the problem. Anyone who aspires to make these cars faster, more reliable, and more fun is on the same team we are.

Eventually this will all settle down, but in the mean time we wanted everyone to know the facts rather than a bunch of hearsay from people stirring the pot.

Do you have links to any specific requests for reverse engineering?

All I recall from xschop and the other guys was measurements of stock porsche parts so he can CAD up the adapter plates and what not else. I don't recall anyone measuring up RH bell housing stuff or the mounts for the matter. I could be wrong, but I thought the bulk of what xschop did was for the C5 bellhousing anyway, not the custom one with hydraulic bearings .

[RenegadeHybrids]

If that's all that happened then the board owner/administrator certainly wouldn't have agreed and offered to sell the board as a solution.

I don't want to rehash all this, but here's an example:

"Hey guys, I never got a chance to post this, and it came directly from an existing "kit" adapter. Take a gander.... This file has been printed to scale, and is within .004" of the RH plate.

"Yo Dave, can ya help with that dim? As far as "thanks"...WTH, this IS a "sharing" forum, right? HeHeHe!"

[nynor]

how is the traffic on your forum? that is the proof in the pudding.

[speedracing944]

Originally Posted by RenegadeHybrids

This thread opened with describing PorscheHybrids.com as an "open source" forum.

Apparently to some members "open source" meant that they would work together to post the design specifications of existing conversion parts so they could be reverse engineered and sold for less than buying them from the original source. They'd post open solicitations for specifications etc. and with the help of others they'd be supplied.

It eventually culminated with parts being made and sold which was a violation of the existing site rules.

When we contacted the owner of the board, the response was, "I agree with everything you say about the reverse engineering and design infringement that's going on, and I have a solution. I will sell you the board..... and.... You can edit out whatever you want and run it as you see fit."

Our intention was to remove the offending parties, and let the board go on largely as it was because most of the content was constructive and very helpful to conversion enthusiasts. So, two members accounts were deleted and the relevant threads removed. It seemed like a logical solution. Unfortunately, some members found this repressive and a revolt ensued despite assurances that the site would go on being vendor neutral and that valid criticism would be welcome.

Hindsight being 20/20, it could have been handled better. So fast forward, and a few splinter boards have emerged and the 944 conversion world is in a huff.

The notion that this was done because of simple competition is simply not true at all. If someone wants to start with a clean sheet of paper we admire their effort and welcome the competition. Healthy competition drives development and continuous improvement which we fully support. So that wasn't the problem. Anyone who aspires to make these cars faster, more reliable, and more fun is on the same team we are.

Eventually this will all settle down, but in the mean time we wanted everyone to know the facts rather than a bunch of hearsay from people stirring the pot.

How is what I have posted hearsay? I am not stirring the pot. My intention was to notify fellow Pelican members and friends on what has happened to the board as many people have inquired about my project. I have always in the past pointed people to the porschehybrids board for information. I wanted to notify these same people and others that porschehybrids is no longer what it once was because all the talent now moved to the new boards, hybrid9s.com and 944hybrids.com.

Best wishes to all fellow Pelican members. I no longer endorse www.porschehybrids.com

Speedy

[xschop]

Wow, I can't believe I'm being slandered on yet another board.
Are you people for real?
I was removed from Porschehybrids.com without any notice or email, hearing, phone call, telegraph,congressional hearing....NADA.
And the funny thing is I really didn't care and still don't. "Gestapoville" is a ghost town now.
But what I did object to is getting an email from Renegade Hybrids (ADMIN) calling me a "Dirtbag" and talking to me like I am some subservient lowlife. I'm a veteran, I have 2 college degrees in the sciences and am not some unintelligent fool you take me to be.

To set the record straight, I never once held a Renegade Hybrids part in my hands. I designed my own C5 Bellhousing Adapter plate CORRECTLY after doing hours of research literally going to many Junk Yards hunting down 4 different Corvette C5 Torque Tubes and using micrometers and Dial indication equipment to get the Proper Torque tube shaft to C5 bellhousing pin relation measurements.
From the drawings that were publicly posted it was obvious that you either:
A) Didn't bother with a dial indicator setup on a C5 torque tube to get a CORRECT crankshaft measurement
B) Outsourced the machining to an incompetent individual
C) Manufactured the plate yourself with loose/worn machinery

That being said, I didn't steal anything, I am not a thief. If I copied your plate which is not PATENTED, I would be afraid of a lawsuit for it's poor design which helps along the Torque Tube Driveshaft's demise. I will send you my mailing address so you can send me a cease and desist letter from your patent attorney if you feel that my plate's design has infringed on your patent rights (which you have none).
I suppose I stole the Lexus LS430 Big Brake idea from you?
And did I also steal your Bump steer idea from you as well...version 1 and version 2 which I am also developing?
How about the Dual master cylinder conversion that I am also about to complete, your idea too?
Maybe you are slandering me because I also copied your idea and have developed a set of control arms that fit the 944 EARLY and LATE car offsets and can also be used for the V8 swap when dropping the Crossmember 1" AND it has REPLACEABLE ball joints....Totally Universal and totally your idea......Riiiiiiiight

I feel I was really kicked off there because I discovered the The RH Plate dimensions were wrong and one of the reasons why so many people were burning pilot bearings and front Torque tube bearings and doing expensive driveshaft repair. Do you even have a clue as to what the base metal of the 944 driveshaft tip is made of?
I'll inform you, it is not case hardened mild steel nor 4130,4140.
Needle bearing style pilot bearings are not a good idea if you don't plan on getting your adapter plate to align the Torque Tube Shaft concentric to the crank within a few thousandths (+- 0.003)!
Lastly, I would put my plate design up against yours in a stress test or a shear test even. I will even give you a 25% shear force Handicap.
What's funny is I don't own a big business, just a hobby for me. But I would never conduct myself the way you did by hiding behind "Admin" and alienating people the way you did. Then you weren't so wise as to hide who you were, now you are feeling the repercussions.

This is my first and last post about this subject. I never thought I would see the day when I had to defend myself on a computer screen to people I have never looked in the eye.

A word to the wise, If you haven't noticed the time, it is 2:30 in the morning here Saturday. It was 102* in OkC today and I prefer to work in my shop at night when it is alot cooler to fire up my CNC. I had to come in and take a break from the run of 10 C5-944 adapter plates I am cutting and the motor mount machining to go with them. I designed my own motor mounts that I would also challenge you to a stress/shear test as well.

You know that after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, they admitted they shouldn't have "awakened the sleeping giant".
Better get busy, I'm on a mission, the next plate's about ready.

[turbobrat930]

Renagade Hybrids... you have been put in your place.... That JUST happened!!!!

[lm6y]

And all of this drama is wasting Wayne's bandwidth why?

[Schumi]

Originally Posted by lm6y

and all of this drama is wasting wayne's bandwidth why?

+1

[Tetzuoe]

Guess I should actually post, Ive been on pelican for about a year now just buying parts and doing research for the conversion.

PORH!

[fast924S]

Hey guys.I think its a good Idea If you keep this off this Forum. Too Many Forums are being Taking over and SHut Down cuz of Big greedy Companies. Renegade You have your own Forum SO STAY THERE. We dont need problems here on the Only Safe forum Left for us Porsche heads

[Johnny Johnny]

Porh +!

[ffmedic]

Originally Posted by RenegadeHybrids

If that's all that happened then the board owner/administrator certainly wouldn't have agreed and offered to sell the board as a solution.

I don't want to rehash all this, but here's an example:

"Hey guys, I never got a chance to post this, and it came directly from an existing "kit" adapter. Take a gander.... This file has been printed to scale, and is within .004" of the RH plate.

"Yo Dave, can ya help with that dim? As far as "thanks"...WTH, this IS a "sharing" forum, right? HeHeHe!"

Yo this is DAVE and if it serves me right and this was towards me, let me give YOU the facts. First I never owned or had access to ANY renegade parts now or ever, and more then likely will never.
The dim that were asked for from me were dim me and another member were working on off a CHEVY bell housing.
We were working with QT (great company btw) to make a BH for the conversion, since your BH was very expensive/and you don't sell kits for the LT anymore, and your BH are not SFI approved (if I am wrong on the rating of your BH my mistake).
I wanted a BH that would hold up to a clutch grenading( since your feet are pretty much right where the BH and clutch sits).
So now you have the facts on YO DAVE hehe and btw it was all hush hush on the BH from QT because I didn't want to raise any hopes and such until it was done and I could say here it is.