83 n/a 944 ...hg?? - Page 2

HondaDustR · 01-24-2010, 04:10 PM

oh crap... how many miles has this been going on?!? Let's hope the bearings haven't been destroyed by that yet.

It must be something cracked, or a very strategic HG failure leaking into the cam housing drainage passageways. What came out when you drained the oil???
Luckily, a good used NA head is not terribly expensive. Finding a good used block can be a PITA depending on your standards. If it was any of the other more common oil/coolant mixing type failures, it almost certainly would have been leaking oil into the coolant before this. The oil works it's way into the expansion tank, so that would have been obvious.

bobbydirl · 01-24-2010, 06:15 PM

Thanks HondaDustR, I feel pretty good about not driving it after the coolant really started making it's way into the oil pan in a notable way. The thing is, I can't get it in my head how coolant can be forced up into that spot under the oil filter threads as shown in the picture. I suppose the level of the coolant still in the engine must be higher than the gasket failure, or cracked head metal, which in turn must be higher than the bottom level of the oil filter. Weather permitting, I hope to have the head off soon. It's in my garage, but I got the crud from laying on the cold floor dealing with the exhaust headers, ...and have had to slow down a bit.
BTW, if it is the head, I could use some advice on the best way to go about finding another one, ....or, (and I hate this!..) how to go about "parting it out".
...also, I read your story on the paper towels, ...useful info.

AA_Ezra · 01-25-2010, 02:44 AM

Heads are easy. First method is to check you're local wrecking yards for a head. I live in California and I see a fair share of 944's around here and 2 cars or more at the junk yard hence the 3 heads I have in the garage =)

bobbydirl · 01-25-2010, 06:38 AM

Thanks AA_Ezra. If it turns out to be the head, I might look around a bit before parting out.
Question: Did you have to take the heads off the cars when you bought them?
&, if you don't mind, what did they cost?
BTW, visited your site and saw your car... looks good, did you take the door guard rails off yourself?

ernie9944 · ernie9944's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbydirl

Thanks AA_Ezra. If it turns out to be the head, I might look around a bit before parting out.
Question: Did you have to take the heads off the cars when you bought them?
&, if you don't mind, what did they cost?
BTW, visited your site and saw your car... looks good, did you take the door guard rails off yourself?

bobbydirl--- just go on parts for sale here on Pelican there is a guy parting out 11 -944 I,m sure you'll find what you need.

AA_Ezra · 01-25-2010, 09:28 AM

Thanks I'm actualy doing a head gasket job myself too right now(broken belt). I paid about 35$ give or take 5$ and would have been cheaper if it was a 50% off weekend which usualy happens before or after a holiday with a comercial on the radio. Yeah I took off the guards because the were all cracked and the stains made the car look dirty. Pack of razor blades and a heat gun for the stuborn parts and they came off and maybe a oil goo gone for the adhesive that's left. My paintiob is shot, so I duno if the goo gone has an affect on clear coat. And yeah I took the heads off the car but made sure the timing belt had not broken before taking it off. It should take you about an hour or more to take off just make sure you use PB blaster on everyhing so by the time you get to the harder stuff the bolts come off easier

Oh and 40$ for local machine shop to resurface the head as I did most of the cleaning on the head CDC gasket remover gets the carbon off great just dab it on the valves only

HondaDustR · 01-25-2010, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbydirl

Thanks HondaDustR, I feel pretty good about not driving it after the coolant really started making it's way into the oil pan in a notable way. The thing is, I can't get it in my head how coolant can be forced up into that spot under the oil filter threads as shown in the picture.

That's exactly what scared me... Oil floats on water, which means the bottom of the oil pan where the oil pickup tube is is full of coolant displacing the oil. The coolant will then get sucked up by the oil pump and pumped through the oil cooler, then filter, and then into the oil passageways. The coolant pooling in the oil filter galley in that last picture should be oil only. Use this diagram and some imagination and you can see why this could be really bad. Rod bearings, especially #2, are sensitive to oiling problems.

Oil System Flow Diagram

If it still sounded tight and quiet last time it ran, you are probably ok, so don't despair quite yet. It just needs a good oil system cleanup, which I am not familiar with as far as the best methods. I'm just formulating my best guess on the fly here, but you would need to remove the oil cooler and OPRV and clean them out really good with some solvent. Drain the oil, fill with something cheap, replace the filter. Run until warm and drain. I do not know if this should be repeated. Replace oil and filter with what you usually use and hope the rods don't start knocking. It would probably be best to clean it out sooner rather than later, or at least drain out as much as you can, since coolant, or coolant and oil mixed may corrode the bearings and crank journals.

Good used NA 2.5L heads complete with valves are pretty easy to come by and a head job is pretty straightforward. Most of the trouble is all the disassembly and assembly, and cleaning the gasket surfaces really good without gouging them or knocking any debris into the cylinders to get jammed between the piston and the wall. The other part is to have the head gasket surface on the head measured for warpage at a machine shop and shaved if it's out of spec or you'll be coming right back.

AA_Ezra · 01-26-2010, 04:14 PM

Ill add to this since it has more action

Question am I supposed to have compression After I Install the head and Head Gasket without The Cam Or Exhaust. I didnt Install the headat TDC as i FIgured I could do that before i install the cam since all the lifters will be seated.

Thanks
J

HondaDustR · 01-26-2010, 04:42 PM

Well, it would be a little tricky there since, yes, it should be able to build compression, but with all the valves closed it can't pull any air in to compress, so pairs of cylinders will be alternately pulling vacuum and pushing compression from what air was already in/leaked in from somewhere, always 2 of each at a given time.

AA_Ezra · 01-26-2010, 04:50 PM

Well, that makes sence. Hey Went Setting TDC Is the TDC mark that you can see On the Flywheel from the top rear of the engine bay the only TDC mark or is thereanother. I looked under engine were there is a 2nd set of marks that is by the starter and i dont see them maybe there isn't one on the early cars?

HondaDustR · 01-26-2010, 05:12 PM

There's a notch in the bottom of the bellhousing that lines up with a notch in the flywheel, but it's not as accurate as the one seen from the top.

AA_Ezra · 01-26-2010, 05:21 PM

The Car is ON jack stands so I'm directly above the Tab To align at TDC but There is no notch at all on the bottom of the flywheel that lines up. 3 inches left or right of the tab i see Nothing

AA_Ezra · 06:40 PM

well checked the flywheel on the spare motor but its an motor off an 84 and it has an additional mark but its not 5mm wide groove so. Maybe the Additional groove is only on the Late style Flywheels