Value of 1980 Turbo 924

[76 Targa]

I'm thinking about purchasing a 924 Turbo here in Tucson. Here's the link:

1980 Porsche 924 Turbo

It has the original paint which needs buffing out, no rust (desert car), a few dings and minor dents, and runs OK. It has been sitting for a couple of years. The interior is pretty much trashed, but is all there. The guy wants just under $2K. Is this a fair deal, or should I look elsewhere? Thanks.

[Rasta Monsta]

If it is hitting on 4 cylinders (no belt valves), it is a decent start to a 931 project, with one important disclaimer: you gotta love the idea of a 931 to follow through, and I mean LOVE it.

Pros: four wheel disc (an option in 1980), desirable color.

Cons: difficult fuel system (some pricey components, such as WUR, are guaranteed bad at this age), turbo likely needs to be rebuilt at well (cheap, IF your unit is rebuildable), turbo R&R is horrible project. Tranny is likely worn out as well. . .rebuild is not difficult, but parts are getting expensive and difficult to source.

Having said all that, I would encourage you to save this car (after some negotiation, of course). They are quite rare, and will suprise 924 "scoffers" when they are running right.

Have fun!

[jsteve340]

I like that it is 85% restored because he changed the oil and belts.The 15% left is just the complete body and interior and ...

[76 Targa]

I went to look at the car in person last week. He's done some of the mechanicals, but it still needs to be thoroughly gone through. What I like about the car is that it is a complete original Arizona car with original paint (actually in pretty good shape except for a couple of spots on the driver door and front valence) and no rust at all. Yeah, the interior needs a lot of clean-up and new upholstery, but I can do that a little at a time after I get the engine and tranny properly serviced, and I can drive it while I'm doing the cosmetic work. I understand that you can get into a 924 (or 944) and easily put more into the car than you could ever re-sell it for down the road. Honestly, that wouldn't be a first for me (or probably most other Pelicans). I particularly like this car because of the originality of the body (no hidden horrors), the fact that it's a dry Arizona car, and the fact that it's a fairly rare Turbo. The ad has been on Craigslist for a few weeks now, and I don't think the seller has gotten many bites. I'm thinking about offering $1500 this coming weekend.

Have a great Chrismmas everyone

[ernie9944]

I beleive you can go a little lower on the offer let say $1,200.00 a 931 is not a car for everybody & bet you that the offer will be slow coming,I'll agree with Rasta you got to love them in order to wrench such a car & will surprise quiet a few peoples if you get it rigth, my buddy took 5 yrs to do his, turn the darn thing upside down & redone all the interior ,his got the 5 lugs Spyder on it turn out to be a beauty, like your planning to do he did a little bite at the time. Merry Christmas to you& family.

[quickr-2]

As being a aircooled guy that owns both 911's,912's and a 81 924 Turbo. I bought the turbo to see how the water coolers are. I picked it up pretty cheap,then went through it. I use it everyday,back and forth to work and weekends. The car runs non-stop during the spring,summer and fall. If they are maintained properly,they are a fine car,very enjoyable to drive. Maintaining them,I would say is on par with a 930 Turbo[Turbo cars in general require more maintanance] Why they are inexpensive buy in,I guess comes down to lack of maintanance through the years,and they simply stop running or run terrible. What really blows my mind is 944,911 and all other Porsche owners come up to my 924 Turbo and say THERE IS STILL ONE OF THOSE ON THE ROAD ACTUALLY RUNNING DAILY??? I get a big kick out of that. Regards;Chris

[Rasta Monsta]

Fun to surprise SC guys on the track too.



Allow me to give you some inspiration:

[quickr-2]

Yes it would take out my ole 78 SC,but my 72 with the RS conversion is another story. The LiL 931 sure does hold its own though,plus the fuel mileage is excellent[a good strong 25 MPG average,not driving too easy either] Its too bad they are frowned upon the aircooled guys,but when they take a ride in the 931,it puts a smile on thier faces,kind of takes them for a loop!!!! Warm Regards;Chris

[ideola]

$2K is too much for that car in the condition it's in. If it were me, I would walk up to the guy with $1500 in cash, offer him $1200, and try like heck to not pay any more than that...just depends upon how badly you want it. But IMO, $2K is too high.

As noted above, the CIS system does not like to sit for more than 12 months (ideally even less). The entire fuel system will need to be gone through with a fine tooth comb. Here is the authoritative thread on that topic: 924Board.org :: View topic - 931 Resuscitation - how to resurrect a long-dead turbo
...and also a diagnostic approach that might come in handy if you do decide to pursue it: 924Board.org :: View topic - A Systematic Approach to 931 Diagnostics

Being a 1980, the car is referred to as a "Series 1". Some people automatically assume that the 1981-82 Series 2 cars are better, but not necessarily so...there are gotchas with both. For the Series 1, the original exhaust manifold (part # ending in 594) ALWAYS cracks under the #1 and #2 runners, impossible to see from the top with engine in situ, but a potential boost leak issue. Many S1s were converted to the S2 manifold (part # ending in 596), so if it has this manifold, that's a bonus. If not you're going to want to find an S2 manifold to swap on, because I can pretty much guarantee you the S1 mani will be cracked. Also, the S2 had an updated breather setup for the head, as well as an updated turbo oil drain. These upgrades may have been installed already on the car, again a bonus if so, and something you'll want to add if it's not already there.

The S2 cars had the infamous and finnicky DITC (digital ignition & timing control) which the above-linked threads discuss at length. DITC is great when it works, but it is terribly finnicky, and the crank reference sensor is unobtanium. As a consequence, some S2 owners have retrograded to the less sophisticated but more reliable hall effect setup from the S1 cars (I have one such example). Point being, from an ignition standpoint, the S1 will be easier (and cheaper) to resurrect.

The S1 has a funky ovoid-shaped charge tube and throttle body interface which is prone to leaking. Many S1 owners like to convert over to the S2 setup, which has a solid charge tube from the turbo to the TB, eliminating the funky rubber connector of the S1, including a single throat 60mm circular TB. This setup makes it much easier to adapt aftermarket components when adding an intercooler (for example).

The S1 also came with the G31 "snailshell" gearbox, while the later cars had the same Audi box that you are familiar with in the 924S/944 world. The G31 is infamous for having weak 1st and 2nd synchros. The shifting mechanism is also overly complex, and the rear shift linkage bushings are almost always shot, which only exacerbates the G31 shifting issues (see this thread: 924Board.org :: View topic - 1979 924 NA or 1980 924 Turbo shifting problems). Nevertheless, many people prefer the G31 gearbox due to its Getrag-style (a.k.a. dogleg) shift pattern. With practice, it is fairly easy to manipulate the gearbox without crunching 1st and 2nd, but it is not a fast-shifting box, and you shouldn't expect it to hold up in drag racing conditions. The biggest benefit of the G31 is that it is even stronger than the Audi boxes, which means it can handle tremendous power increases (which do lurk in the 931). More importantly, it came with an option for LSD, the same unit available in same-era 915s. I have two G31+LSD setups, and they are lovely. This car almost certainly has the G31; if you're lucky, it may also have the LSD.

The great news is that I can now provide a complete repair kit for the G31, including 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear dogteeth, all of the synchros, and the complete seal kit. Most of the original G31 parts are unavailable, but through the help of a few 924board members, we've been able to identify replacement bits from other gearboxes, and I can source all of them in a kit.

Regarding the turbo, as Rasta mentions, it is a Royal Pain to R&R. The big problem with them is the totally unique three bolt flange on the exhaust manifold-to-turbine housing interface. This means that without major engineering and expense, your only option for the turbo is the original K26 with its unique hotside housing. Worse, the 931s turbine housing almost always cracks, and often when it does, it damages the turbine wheel. Even if the turbo spins, there is a high likelihood that you have damaged turbine wheel. Over 50% of the dozens I have personally inspected and taken apart were unusable, including the turbine housing itself. I have never, ever seen an uncracked turbine housing...so it's simply a matter of whether or not you can find one that is serviceable even if cracked. Good news is that John Walzel @ Majestic Turbo is very familiar with these units, and offers excellent pricing on rebuilds (~$350 assuming no major damage).

There are a whole bunch of other minor details of things to look for that can give you an indication of how well the car was cared for. If you'd like more info, feel free to send me a PM, and I'll give you some more stuff to watch for.

[JonA]

Not running, rough interior...Offer him $500.00. You can negotiate from there. This car is legendary for hard to solve problems. It was not Porsche's finest hour.

Jon

[Rasta Monsta]

Jon, Shaggy has a message for you.

[ideola]

This car is legendary for hard to solve problems.

The problems this car has are only hard to solve for people that are ignorant of the 924 platform and attempt to fix it using techniques from other platforms, often screwing it up worse than it was to begin with.

Aside from the turbine housing issue I pointed out above, these cars are exceedingly easy to troubleshoot, repair, and get into good running condition. Even the infamous CIS is not nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be, particularly if you have the correct $60 tool to diagnose it. And there were plenty of other Porsches of the same era that had CIS, so the fuel injection issues are by no means unique to the 924.

You're right about the 924 not being produced during Porsche's finest hour. If it wasn't for the 924, none of us would be here discussing Porsche because the company would not have survived financially.

[John_AZ]

924 turbo info & production numbers-thanks again to IAN @ 944online:
Transaxle Porsches

And the design successor to the 924S :
New Page 1

John_AZ
1988 924S + 1987 924S

[ernie9944]

Would you say that the Styling Model of that so call 984 has a similar look to what I got sitting in my garage talking about the front now.

[76 Targa]

Back from Christmas break. I thought a lot about the car over the past couple of days. It does run, though probably not well. I heard it run when I went to look at it the first time a couple of weeks ago, and it sounded OK. Obviously it will need to be thoroughly gone through. Right now, there are several 924s for sale in the Tucson-Phoenix area. A guy in Phoenix has a real nice Copper-tone 77 for sale, but it isn't a Turbo and it needs some brake work. It has also been sitting for a while, though it looks to be better maintained than the Turbo here in Tucson and the guy says he runs it once in a while. The asking price for that one is $3500, which seems a little steep for an early 924 non-turbo. The link is here:

Antique rare Porsche 924 special edition

There's also a red 79 non-turbo up in Phoenix that is listed as a daily driver, and he wants $4200, which also seems a little steep for a non-turbo:

1979 PORSCHE 924 91,000 ORGINAL MILES

Both of the non-turbo cars look like they're in decent shape, though they both have the usual worn-out seats and cracked dash covers. The Turbo car here in Tucson will be a lot more work to get road worthy, but will probably be a lot more fun once it's running right. Decisions, decisions......

[ernie9944]

Only one word to much "MONEY"& really I don't think you would enjoy those. For the amount of money there asking you can get yourself a pretty nice 924s or 944 n/a.

[ideola]

I'll stack any one of my 931s up against a 924S or 944. Boost is fun, and the 931 has tremendous upside potential, performance-wise, whereas the normally aspirated 2.5L 924S and 944 are pretty much a dead end without spending TONS of $$$. I wouldn't bother with either of the NAs. Not only too much money, but just not that interesting once you've had a taste of boost.

[76 Targa]

You're probably right about the two NA cars Ernie. I'd prefer the Turbo even if it is a bit more work up front. I'm not too concerned about the CIS system, since I've had multiple cars, both Porsches and VWs, with CIS systems, and know my way around them fairly well. The big unknown about this particular car is the condition of the Turbo.

The guy has had the car on Craigslist for several weeks now, and I think I'm the only one that went to see the car....and that was two weeks ago. He has placed multiple ads on Craigslist over the course of that time, the latest one was put on after I went to look at the car. His ad says he's firm on the price, but he might be a bit more willing to deal now that he's had the car listed for an extended period of time. Apparently he's got around $2K invested in the car and is trying to get his investment back out. Never worked for me....

[Rasta Monsta]

Originally Posted by 76 Targa

will probably be a lot more fun

86 the probably, brother. My 931 owns 944s, 911SCs, and a variety of other surprised sonzabeetches.

[ernie9944]

Originally Posted by ideola

I'll stack any one of my 931s up against a 924S or 944. Boost is fun, and the 931 has tremendous upside potential, performance-wise, whereas the normally aspirated 2.5L 924S and 944 are pretty much a dead end without spending TONS of $$$. I wouldn't bother with either of the NAs. Not only too much money, but just not that interesting once you've had a taste of boost.

I think you got me wrong there ,what I was trying to do is compare the price they are asking for the 924 na, not a 931 this is lot of difference between them two cars,how much hp does a 77.5 or a 79 -924 has compare to a 931-924s or 944, same for the drive-train you can't compare that I know for sure & to bring either one of those 924 to the 931 -924s- 944 standard will cost you a pile of $$$$.