Sway Bars Question

[Rudeboy42]

So you think I should keep my stock front bar around just in case I want to use it for events?

[flash968]

it depends on how much you like getting under there to change things, and how many event you plan to do

you might consider an adjustable front bar if you plan to switch back and forth

[racer]

To the OP.. what is the current status of Shocks and Tires on the car already?

Also, be sure to check the rulebook for who you run with and what mods would move you out of class.. ie, adding a rear sway to a car that doesn't have one.. is that protestable to kick you up a class?

Also curious as to how much seat time/experience you have.. I mention this only because i have seen some VERY soft / stock, leaning cars be driven to victory in classes where it wasn't expected.

[Rudeboy42]

Don't worry I checked what mods are allowed before I bought the sway bar. The last thing I'd want would be to move into a class with much faster heavily modifyed cars.

As far as seat time goes I don't have a lot just yet (only 6 events so far) but I'm planning on doing alot more.

My current tires are just some cheap all seasons and my front suspension is just the stock sachs struts. I replaced the rear shocks with Bilstines and I plan on replacing the front struts and getting better tires. I just wanted to start with sway bars cause it seems like they did a lot for not that much money.

[ScoobySteve]

Originally Posted by Laptop_geek

Flash, I guess I'm not understanding why less body roll is bad. I've always been told it is good. I understand you have to make the whole car work together and it could be bad if the only thing your doing is putting on bigger sways...but I guess I'm just a little confused.

What Flash said...and...suspension design is very tricky business. "In theory" more body roll has some significant theoretical advantages, the biggest of which is evenly distributing the weight across both tires. The ugly, practical, truth is that most suspensions start exhibiting pretty ugly camber when compressed (or unloaded) too far from static position. Another problem is most people don't want to design a suspension with that much travel at all. The heavier the car, the more this is a problem; you run out of roll very quickly unless you want to raise ride height.

Some cars like a lot more bar than others. Many Lotus cars have little or no roll bar, especially in the rear. Watch a stock Elise at an autocross; it rolls a lot. But, it seems to work. 924/944/968s seem to like a lot of roll resistance. People have a number of theories on why but I think a lot of it has to do with the strut front suspension. Historically, the strut-control arm arrangement doesn't have the prettiest camber curve and this necessitates a large bar up front. You simply have to go big at the back to avoid a car with terminal understeer. Add in the fact that the weight distribution is so good and you have a car that can thrive with a bigger rear bar in the hands of someone with skill. One other issue is the micro-physics that occur on less than perfectly smooth pavement.

[pjs77]

Originally Posted by flash968

a less expensive improvement would be to grab a set of standard 968 bars - they can be had for nearly nothing - the front will be 26.8mm and the rear will be 16mm - typically a set can be had for less than $200, complete with bushings

Does anyone know what I would need to put the above described 968 (basically S2) sway bars on an early car? I have a 85.5 N/A and a very nice seller has agreed to install them for me at his house but I want to make sure I have everything I need to do so before I head out there.

[Rasta Monsta]

The rear bar will bolt up, but the front will require some fabrication. Do a search.

[porsche4life]

The standard 968 setup will induce understeer just like the standard 944 setup.... Now if you went with an M030 rear bar and something a little smaller in the front you get a nice tail happy car.... Ask me how I know.

[pjs77]

LOL, I have been searching for the last 30 min or so. Which is how I ended up in this thread.

So basically the 26.8mm and the 16mm won't change much? Or you think it will mess it up?

[Rudeboy42]

I ended up getting a 27.5mm front and 18mm rear and I'm happy with it for now. What are you going to use the car for just street use? Or are you going to do autox or track?

[pjs77]

Originally Posted by Rudeboy42

I ended up getting a 27.5mm front and 18mm rear and I'm happy with it for now. What are you going to use the car for just street use? Or are you going to do autox or track?

Right now its just a street car for the weekends, I drive "spirited" and would like to end up doing some DE, maybe some AutoX and Time trials in the next year or so. In order to prepare fir this I wanted to do the "Koni Adj Mod" and add some beefier sway bars. So I found a guy that offered to help me install all of the above (he is the seller of the stock s2 sway bars) and me being a tool-less, timeless, inpatient bastard I figured I need to take him up on the offer to both upgrade my car and learn about it in the process. There, thats the long answer lol!

I fear that the answer is to go with the 30mm up front and the 19mm in the rear which this is not. The question is will the 26.5mm and 16mm even make a difference? To be honest, the 14mm in the rear I think was optional and I am not sure I have it. Its an LSD car, not sure if that makes a difference

[Rudeboy42]

If the car doesn't have a rear sway bar it'll make a HUGE difference. I started this autox season with the stock setup and as you can see from my original post the body roll was horrible. Now that I've upgraded them I can't imagine going back to the stock 944 sway bar.

The only thing I will say to you is that maybe you should get a slightly bigger rear bar. These cars as most cars are tuned to have more understeer because it's safer for people who don't know what they're doing. That being said if you're going to do autox you might not want that much understeer cause it'll be frustrating when you get better and you have trouble getting the car to rotate cause it's just plowing.

The best thing I would say for you is to get a basic set of tools, a jack, and some jack stands. That way you can just change the sway bars yourself later if you don't like them. They're not very hard to do. Besides you'd be crazy to own a 20+ year old car and not be able to do ANY work to it yourself.

[petrolhead611]

if this is any help, I had no rear sway bar on my 924S, then I installed 14mm factory option and on faster bends during sprints and hillclimbs it helped balance the car but on slow sharp corners on Autox it still understeers like crazy. I am thinking of fittting an 18mm swaybar on the rear to try to counter this whilst leaving front one stock.

[wild man]

After skimming over all of the replies, the thing that I don't see mentioned, is that you will have to weld on the 2 clamps that secure the rear sway bar to the cross tube that holds the torsion bars. I had to do this on my 80 924, which did not have a rear sway bar. I got mine from a JY (had to chisel them off), but I would recommend purchasing new ones.

[J1NX3D]

my '78 and '80 turbo both had rear sways. its possible that early 924's that didn't have rear sway bars as stock didn't have the mounts that the clamps screw into. luckily theyre there on 944's. late ones anyway, i havent seen an early 944 without a rear sway but judging by the threads coming up about no rear sways, the mounts are present.

[pjs77]

@wildman - The later cars (as opposed to the early 924's) all had the rear sway bars optional and all the mounting points are already there, so if there really isn't one on the car is should just bolt right up.

I just haven't had time to climb under the car and look. Sounds silly but I have 3 kids under 4 and a wife that works full time so by the time the day ends, I have no energy to climb under and look, lol. Maybe tonight.

I think I am going to give this a shot though, at least for now and I can upgrade to bigger ones in a year or two. If the 16mm rear bar isn't doing the trick then I will move up to the 18mm or 3 way adj 19mm, no9 big deal. What I am understanding from all of you and all the research I have done is that a car set up for street and mild track use is very different from setting one up for AutoX. Since I am not anywhere near ready to autox the car and even when I do it will be infrequent and just for fun. If I ever need to upgrade for events then I will cross that bridge when I come to it. I have all the metric wrenches and sockets, jack stands, a hydraulic floor jack, a nice warm garage to work on the car. My issue is time. This winter should be interesting though, thats when I'll have time to "play with it" Right now I am having too much fun driving it! So the bottom line looks like the S2 bars would be a bit of an upgrade for cheap money and I get help doing the Koni's which I am very intimidated by, sounds like a win to me. I can always go back to stock if I upset the car too much.

[pjs77]

Originally Posted by mAd924

my '78 and '80 turbo both had rear sways. its possible that early 924's that didn't have rear sway bars as stock didn't have the mounts that the clamps screw into. luckily theyre there on 944's. late ones anyway, i havent seen an early 944 without a rear sway but judging by the threads coming up about no rear sways, the mounts are present.

I agree, they should be there on my car but if not it should mount no problem, I just need to make sure I have the correct hardware and bushings

[wild man]

My 77 924 did have the rear sway bar. But like was said, it was probably an option. On the 924's, the mounting "clamps" were welded onto the torsion bar carrier tube. But it sounds like they are bolt-on for the 944's. That's a welcome upgrade, I suppose.

[pjs77]

I just got off the phone with another Porsche Parts company that starts with the letter "P" ahem ahem and the guy told me these sway bars would be a nice little upgrade from stock and since I am getting a great deal on them that it wouldn't be a bad investment even if I did want to move up to the M030's in the future.

On top of that I ordered the yellow adj koni's and upper strut bearings for the front and he told me these are much easier to install on my 85.5 as opposed to the later cars which was great news to me. He said no cutting, they just drop into the stock sleeves (I'll believe it when I see it) but I can't wait!! thanks for your input folks!

[wild man]

Correction: It IS the clamp "mounts" that are welded on.