Belt squeal then car died

[ecosse944]

On the way to work this morning, after the car started there was a squeal from one of the belts. It went away after a few seconds but returned after I put on the heater fan.
It squealed and then went away a couple of times, then after one squeal the car lost power and ran to a stop. It was not interested in starting again. It turns over no problem, but won't fire up. As far as I could see, none of the belts had come off. Inside the car there was a strong rubber/ burning smell.
I have had cars in the past where the fan/ water pump belt has come off or broke, but the engine still ran.
I had the cam housing gasket replaced a couple of weeks ago, so the belts may be slipping, but I don't see how that would cause the car to lose all power.
I don't think it is the alternator, as the radio and headlights were still working.


Any ideas?

[PorscheRulz]

Can you hear the fuel pump when trying to crank the car? Could be the DME relay.

[looneybin]

did you replace the timing and balance belts when you had the cam housing gasket replaced?
timing belt failure is catastrophic is the 944 - it definitely won't continue to run.
You may want to open up the timing belt cover & check if the timing or balance shaft belts are still in place

[Rasta Monsta]

D'oh.

[ecosse944]

Originally Posted by PorscheRulz

Can you hear the fuel pump when trying to crank the car? Could be the DME relay.

I replaced the DME relay about a month ago, when it went, the car did lose power the same way it did this morning. I am still trying to get the car towed home, so I can have a better look at it. I didn't listen for the fuel pump. Could the squealing belt just be a coincidence?

[Slam]

Water pump seized and took out the cam belt?

[ecosse944]

Originally Posted by Slam

Water pump seized and took out the cam belt?

If the water pump seized and took out the cam belt, would the engine still turn over? Also, would there not be a lot of noise if the cam belt snapped?

Slam, where in Alberta are you? I am in NW Calgary.

[Slam]

Oh, the irony! I was just in Calgary on Friday and Saturday picking up an 84 944 there. Came down Thursday, changed the belts Friday, drove back Saturday!

The engine would turn over, but very easily, as you'd have no or very little compression. If the engine turns over and sounds the way it always has when you crank it, the T-belt is fine. Noise-wise, I suppose a belt failure could be noisy if the belt wound itself around things it shouldn't.

[ecosse944]

Everything sounds as normal, and it doesn't feel any different when turning over, so fingers crossed! I am just about to join the AMA and get them out to tow it home.
My mechanic is coming over later to look at it. I will let everyone know the outcome when I have more of an idea what the problem is.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Try this simple experiment:

- Disconnect the battery
- Put the transmission in neutral
- Pull the #1 spark plug
- Get a 1/2" drive breaker bar with 24" socket and rotate the crank pulley bolt

If you get puffs of air out the spark plug hole, you're probably fine. If you don't, start looking for a new head and possibly new pistons.

[smokin_944]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Try this simple experiment:

- Disconnect the battery
- Put the transmission in neutral
- Pull the #1 spark plug
- Get a 1/2" drive breaker bar with 24" socket and rotate the crank pulley bolt

If you get puffs of air out the spark plug hole, you're probably fine. If you don't, start looking for a new head and possibly new pistons.

How did I know you were going to say that? However ecosse944 says turning it over sounds normal. When my neighbor's TB blew, his engine turned over somewhat faster than normal. Porsche-O-Phile, I hope you are wrong for his sake...

[ecosse944]

GOOD NEWS......

The mechanic got the car running, the problem is with the keyway on the camshaft. It is badly worn and caused the timing to be out, enough to make the car die.

The only damage is to the distributor cap, it is all burnt inside and the contacts are scored. The cap is only a few weeks old, but is a lot cheaper to replace than the valves and head!

The keyway is only $2.39 from the Porsche dealer, but I have decided to replace all the belts at the same time, just in case.

Thanks guys for all the advice, and I am just thankful it wasn't a worst case scenario!

[Slam]

Need an early cam? I have a spare. If the keyway is worn, it'll work loose again. Actually, this is a good opportunity to source a cam from a series 2 (85.5 and up) car and upgrade.

Just a wild guess, but did you replace the cam bolt with a new one when you were in there last? If not, the old one could have backed out.

I'm glad your timing belt didn't go!

[ecosse944]

Originally Posted by Slam

Need an early cam? I have a spare. If the keyway is worn, it'll work loose again. Actually, this is a good opportunity to source a cam from a series 2 (85.5 and up) car and upgrade.

Thanks, the car is a series 2 85', and the cam was in good order. I may change the cam bolt while I am at it, if you think it would be wise to change it.

[John_AZ]

Originally Posted by ecosse944

GOOD NEWS......

The mechanic got the car running, the problem is with the keyway on the camshaft. It is badly worn and caused the timing to be out, enough to make the car die.

The only damage is to the distributor cap, it is all burnt inside and the contacts are scored. The cap is only a few weeks old, but is a lot cheaper to replace than the valves and head!

The keyway is only $2.39 from the Porsche dealer, but I have decided to replace all the belts at the same time, just in case.

Thanks guys for all the advice, and I am just thankful it wasn't a worst case scenario!

You should take Slam up on his offer.

You are living on borrowed time when the keyway gets worse.

The Porsche 944 Cam Tower

I cannot believe a mechanic would not advise you to change it.

GL
John

[Slam]

I'm afraid my offer is no good! I've only got an early cam, not a late one. Sorry! Somebody here will have one, though.

That cam bolt has to be replaced every time it's removed, as it's a torque-to-yield bolt. One use. It failed and took out the keyway. The only consolation is that it can only back out so far... your distributor sees to that.

[ecosse944]

Originally Posted by John_AZ

You should take Slam up on his offer.

You are living on borrowed time when the keyway gets worse.

The Porsche 944 Cam Tower

I cannot believe a mechanic would not advise you to change it.

GL
John

I guess the keyway should have been replaced the first time, but I am not using the car until the new keyway is fitted, along with all the belts. I have added the cam bolt to my list.

[John_AZ]

Originally Posted by ecosse944

GOOD NEWS......

The mechanic got the car running, the problem is with the keyway on the camshaft. It is badly worn and caused the timing to be out, enough to make the car die.

ecosse944,

There is some confusion here.

Your mechanic said the "keyway" is worn. A keyway is the hole in the cam shaft the "$2.39 shaft key" fits in. Also referred to as a "woodruff key"

Pelican Parts - Product Information: 900-117-045-00-OEM

The shaft/woodruff key will not fix a chewed up shaft "keyway".

The pictures in my link above show a chewed up shaft keyway and the cam should be replaced.

GL
John

[ecosse944]

[QUOTE=John_AZ;5550191]ecosse944,

There is some confusion here.

Your mechanic said the "keyway" is worn. A keyway is the hole in the cam shaft the "$2.39 shaft key" fits in. Also referred to as a "woodruff key"

Pelican Parts - Product Information: 900-117-045-00-OEM

The shaft/woodruff key will not fix a chewed up shaft "keyway".

The pictures in my link above show a chewed up shaft keyway and the cam should be replaced.

I am even more confused now! The mechanic called the part the keyway, I ordered a "keyway" from the porsche dealer. They seemed to know the part as a keyway. It seems here in Canada they have names for parts that no one else in the world uses!
Anyway, the porsche dealer phoned today and informed me the "keyway" is no longer available from porsche! Can you f@*^$*g believe it!
Whatever it is called, the part I need is the part that goes in the end of the camshaft and turns the rotor arm in the distributor cap. Is the shaft key something that wears down? I am almost positive it is the key and not the camshaft hole that is worn.
Does anyone have a shaft key ( or woodruff key)?