Cant find TDC !!!!
 

Well,.. this morning before work, I rotated the crank to find TDC and the mark was not in the tranny window,..(top side window) tried it twice ...Sure hope iam missing some thing...all aftermarket flywheels should still have the mark correct ??? I know the clutch was replace 50 K ago but this PO always had work done at the P.dealer FM

you can just do the dowel in the spark plug hole trick .

Well the head is off the car,...and Iam about to assemble this weekend,...

Well i had to retype my response i just noticed you have an aftermarket flywheel. since you have the head off that should make it much easier. I would think that you could find TDC no problem with the head off.

Straight edge on top of piston #1 and see when it's at it's peak just before it starts to go downwards and. If it were me i would use a Punch of some kind and Mark you're aftermarket flywheel through the Top of the engine where the stock one would be and make some kind of Line of some sort so you have placement for next time?

LOL,...Yea,. well Iam wondering if I can be 180 deg. out.if I set the piston TDC and set the cam at its notch then assemble,is it possible to be out of sync,...???? How ever I do still have the balence belt installed. FM

no you can't every thing is keyed . there is a key way on the end of the cam for the pully . the rotor also can only go on one way .

the pully is still on the cam,..(which is good)Iam concerned about valve, piston timming,..can I use the balence belt some how as a referance point, it did not break .I will also ck the notch at the bottem of the trany,aswell Thanks FM

There's only 1 TDC for cyl 1, which is where the mark on the flywheel is supposed to be. Everything else is timed to that TDC on assembly. If the cam belt is installed and properly timed, you can get to cyl 1 TDC with the cam 180 degrees "out of time" according to the cam TDC mark, but really it's just the exhaust TDC and not the compression TDC, but sill all the same as far as just the crank and pistons are concerned. When re-assembling, set the crank to cyl 1 TDC, align the cam gear to its TDC mark, and bolt everything up.

If you have the head and cam already installed and lost timing, with the cam belt off set the crank very carefully to TDC + or - 90 degrees, whichever is closer,ie you want to back the higher pair of pistons down and away from the head. This puts all the pistons mid stroke and well out of the way of the valves. Set the cam timing and slowly return directly to cyl 1 TDC. Cyl 1 piston should be comming up as you turn. If it is not, you are going the wrong way and may contact valves with pistons 2 or 3. With the crank back to cyl 1 TDC and the cam still at TDC, install the cam belt. The balance shafts should then be checked as well.

Like said above, if your aftermarket flywheel lacks a TDC mark, you should put one to prevent any confusion in the future. If you are feeling piston position through the spark plug holes, use something that's not going to scratch the cylinders, spark plug threads, or break off in the cyl (the plug hole is at an angle to the piston face, meaning the stick needs to be drawn out more as you approach TDC or it could get clamped between the psiton and the plug hole). A long philips screwdriver wrapped in duct tape works good. You can also see the pistons through the hole with a flashlight to gage what's going on.

with the head off rotate engine till piston #1 is at the top of the stroke. Also seriously consider making a TDC mark on the flywheel like mentioned.

With piston #1 being at TDC,..how do I know if it is conbustion or exhaust stroke ???

By checking to see if the camshaft notches are lined up or not. There are 2 TDC's, one at the cam line-up point, the other at 180 out.

If it is 180 out, simply rotate the crank 1 full turn, and it will be lined right up!

You want to find true TDC, with out the flywheel mark you are guessing up to plus or minus 10 degrees. Eye-ing the mark is even not the most accurate method. With a installed timing belt its not critical because the cam-crank is in a known working relationship. Assembly with out an attached belt you better be sure on this engine, because of valve interference and performance. If you have the head off I would degree the crank TDC with a degree wheel and dial indicator. Guessing on this engine could be a disaster. There are hundreds of references on the web to get this done.

+1. I'm going to have to agree on that. But first (if belts are still on), line up the cam marks, and look though the opening at the VERY bottom (6 o'clock) of the bell housing for a notch or other mark on the flywheel. If it is there, use it. If not, I would suggest placing a mark, or notch, there for future reference.

I recommend DIY maintenance, but it amazings me what people tackle with no experience. Especially this engine, pulling the head ,belts, and what ever then pondering what TDC might be.......is to say the least interesting.

I rebuild my first lawnmower engine before I was 12 and worked my way up. The cost of screwing up is so much cheaper.

Before you rip into the OP, notice he is asking about an alternative to knowing if he is on the exhaust or compression stroke when #1 is at the top and the flywheel mark isn't available. That's a pretty legit question. The discussion strayed a little from what he asked so I will assume you just got confused. ;-)

FM - quick and dirty answer. Get everything lined up where you are confident you are either at TDC or 180 degrees off via the mark on the cam. Pull #1 plug. Stick your thumb in the hole and rotate the crank. You may need a friend to help. If you hear fart sounds its the compression stroke. AKA poor man's compression test.

Edit: You have to do 3/4 rotation of the crank after locking in what you think is TDC. So #1 is on its way up when you stick your thumb in the hole.

Yo, fartmanies, he needs a more accurate method of finding TDC than that. There's a whole lot of room for error with that method. I suspect that the aftermarket flywheel might already have a notch at the bottom, like the factory one does.

Belive me I will make sure of the Compression stroke,...I was going to have a shop fix it,..but at 2600.00 plus, I figured I cant screw it up anymore than it is,..So I towed it home,with the top end in the trunk,..in pieces.So Iam learning the car..Thats were I make the mistake,I should have had it towed to my house,...and took it apart myself...Then I would not have to ask Dumb ass questions....FM

I'm waiting to hear whether or not the FW has the previously mentioned marking. I would say that the odds are in favor of it.

I would also suggest that you download the manual set and use it.

We are here for you. I just wanted you to understand the complexity of what you are doing. You have enough skill to at least to take it apart, just make sure you do your homework putting it back together. I was not slashing you, just commenting on what level of the learning curve you made a jump too.

Wild Man -I don't think I said anything about eyeballing the timing, he is asking if he is 180 degree out. Simple test - see if you have compression on the upstroke before TDC. And I said line it all up first...I think you are confusing me with the wooden dowel advocates. No licking my thumb and sticking it in the wind here.

To contribute something here...if you can't use the flywheel do not use a wooden dowel. Pull your head again and rotate the crank until #1 is at the top. Use a straight edge to verify and be as precise as possible. Is this as good as a flywheel mark? No, but the margin of error is much smaller than a tooth on the belt. Check cam for said fart sounds. If its silent, pull the head again and repeat after 1/2 revolution of the crank. Now you should have sounds, and if not you have some other problem to now go look for.

Lots of work but think how good you will be at it with all that practice!

Oh I understand,..Romad....like I said I should have started it myself.....But I dont have that kind of money,... plus the more I learn the more I can share....FM

Top of Block looks like this, see pix below.
 

Hope these pix help.
later...;)http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288560812.jpg

Opps, These pics are from my 16V engine, However you should see that Cyl 1 and 4 are at the very top of the crank shaft stroke. and cyl 2 and 3 are at the very bottom of their stoke as well...

Later.

Yes,....Thanks I did finally find it,...I used the bottem notch....and when I ck'd top side there it was in the window,...does not take much to miss it...Thanks Frank

hmmm, no problem
 

i am rebuilding my '88 944 turbo. so far the plan is going as follows...Get it close. O.K. after putting #1 at tdc (by way of straight edge, the engine is out of car and on stand), i began assembling the rest of the motor and kinda got sloppy. So i figured "no worries. after i put the flywheel and bell housing back on; tdc will be no problem." so, again. i got everything close...using the dowel this time, lining up the timing marks etc., eventually i will adjust a "tooth" or two. and voila! well hopefully. anyways...It's only confidence that keeps me going. maybe this will give another guy some confidence :)

I'm in a similar situation, when I put the head back one #1 was at or about TDC (I had moved the crank 180 to clean out the piston bores on 2 and 3 from some gasket shavings). When I went to put the timing belt back on, it was off a tooth from the marks I made on it and the timing belt sprocket . Now I don't think the belt slipped a tooth as someone held it tight when I rotated the crank. When I look at both the tranny window and the slot at the bottom of the motor I cannot find the reference marks. I know that at TDC, there is play of a few degrees at the crank where the pistons don't seem to move, could this account for the one tooth off? It's an automatic and the previous owner had the flex plate replaced at one time. Does the auto have the same marks? Could the flex plate be installed in a position x degrees off? Yeah, I'm a dumb a@#, I should have looked for the marks before I put the head back on!

dude make sure you've got this right, and double check it. I made a huge mistake with this when I changed my head gasket. Put the head back on and couldn't find TDC. Started it up...bent every exhaust valve. Luckily I got a new head.

Found it, right where it should have been. I would have been a tooth off! Stronger flashlight helped!