oh no.. :(

[lowenschlo]

Dont worry i searched this already i found out alot of what i need to know has happened, i would just like some second opinions. when i first start my early 85 NA, i hear a wierd clank type sound, after a bit it fades away.. then there is a faint ticking throughout my drive. however i pulled into my driveway tonight and a strange smell came shortly before i arrived home. and when i popped the hood, i could barely see white smoke, and it appeared i had no coolant. i squeezed the coolant hose and it felt like air i put coolant in it and didnt have enough to fill it up. im assuming its a head gasket? its leaking a little oil adjacent to the cam housing under the intake mani. Bad news? i dont know why, but i fear the worst. needless to say my knowledge is very limited so maybe someone has good news. im just a bit upset because i absolutely ADORE this car......and it happens to be my daily driver..............my only daily driver

So, on that bombshell i would like to end with these questions:
if my motor is toast,

is a 968 swap possible?
is it complicated?
expensive?
worth it??



any help is GREATLY appreciated!!!!!!


Cheers,
Drew

[lowenschlo]

the reason i suggest its toast is because it acts like everything is a struggle, and the ticking leads me to believe i need alot of head work :/

[mikepellegrini]

Yeah, it sounds like your engine has a blown headgasket and more. Clanking sounds are bad. From what you described it probably is ready to be sold for scrap metal.

I'm not sure how difficult it would be to install a 968 engine - quite difficult, I'm guessing. People have done that with 951's and I know that's a hassle. With an early car it'd probably be harder.

You'd need the engine wiring harness and the ECU. Plus if I'm not mistaken, the bellhousing is different. It would likely be very expensive (to begin with, 968 engines aren't cheap - I've heard $2-3,000).

Conversely NA engines are easy to come by and would require no modifications.

If you pay attention to what your car is saying, you can usually head off expensive disasters like this.

[89-944NA]

If this is your daily driver, you are going to need to do this as quickly as possible, look for another early engine and do a simple swap....it's plug and play and can be done over the weekend.
Post your location in your signature, and you may just find someone on this forum who lives nearby and might be willing to help you for a few beers and some food...or better yet, some good BBQ.

[John_AZ]

Originally Posted by lowenschlo

is a 968 swap possible?
is it complicated?
expensive?
worth it??

Possible yes.

Worth it-NO

Part it out and pick up a "decent" 944, 944S or maybe a 951 --cheap.

GL
JOhn

[jcommin]

Both 89 and John have very valid points. I thought of this very same thing. What if my engine goes, what do I do..............My answer is swap with an LS1! My car is not my daily driver. I'm the orginal owner and although this makes no economic sense, it is pure emtional.

So my advise is to look at this from a practical point of view - It's either John's or 89's.

Good luck

[vdubr928]

It can be done. Its a big job. Expensive for someone with limited knowledge and skills. Find a good motor and put it in. This will probably take you a couple or few weeks. Unless you live close by and make good bbq. If you really need more power buy a supercharger or a 928. They are getting cheaper than 944's and have the other half of the engine you're missing.


The reason I say that is even with the 3.0 it still wont be a v8

[Brozoar]

I also wouldn't suggest that swap because it's a substantially more powerful engine, and the 944NA transmission probably won't be able to take it for long.

However, if you live anywhere near Southeast MI, I have a beautiful '83 motor for sale, in good working order with belts less than 2000 miles old. Only prob is it's kinda still in my car...

[lowenschlo]

Update my car is also leaking coolant from somewhere near the bottom of the engine. I didn't look at all but im guessing its the water pump?? Any suggestions?? And I decided that although it would be fun, 968 swap isn't happenng, especially on my budget, I just ordered the head gasket kit, and vacuum hose kit from Lindsey racing. Anything else I should get? Im doing this myself so any tips and things to keep in mind would he great also!!! Thanks to all for your help!!!

[89-944NA]

Make sure you have the head checked and if it is warped, get it decked, or you are going to be doing this job again soon. These engines don't like to be overheated.

Is the coolant leaking from the front? Is it leaking more to the passenger side, just back from the front? Exactly where is it leaking, could be the water pump, could be a hose, could be the coolant transfer tube (metal pipe that runs down the passenger side of the cam tower), could be the oil cooler housing (passenger side, near the front of the engine) , could be any number of places. Time to climb under and start checking.

Since you are going to be pulling the head, now is a good time to replace the cam and balance shaft belt since you are going to be taking them off anyway.

Make sure all your marks are lined up.....check Clark's Garage Home Page for the "how to" on aligning the marks before you pull the belts.

It would still be a good thing to let us know where you are located, that way, like I said, if another board member lives nearby, you can maybe get some help.

Not trying to scare you, but if you don't have the marks lined up correctly, or don't have the cam belt adjusted properly, you are looking at a major meltdown when the pistons and valves collide.

[SolReaver]

Is a swap possible? Why...yes!

Is it practical? Heavens no!

If you want a 968 motor....Buy a 968.

If you want a LS1.... Buy a Corvette.

Water pumpage problems can manifest as pretty ugly so don't panic just yet.

You will need a WP (if it is leaking) and Timing belts Minimal.

Check the Oil cooler housing on the bottom of the engine. You might have to remove the engine shrouds to get a good look at the WP. IMHO, fill with water and slightly pressurize the system to find out where the leak is. Without that knowledge.... I can only speculate wildly. I try not to do that in public.

[lowenschlo]

Its deffinately leaking from the front of the engine, towards the passenger side. And it was a steady stream when I shut off the engine. Is the oil cooler housing or water pump nearest this location? I wont be able to look at it until after 2pm

[89-944NA]

Yes, the oil cooler housing is in that area, but if it is a steady stream it is most likely the water pump. Like I said, time to climb under and start looking. Do you know when the water pump was last changed? If not, then do the pump along with the belts and head gasket.

Cam and Balance shaft belts should be done every 40,000 miles, water pump generally accepted change interval is every other belt change, or 80,000 miles. Best to do the belts and pump while you have the head off for piece of mind.

[SolReaver]

Head? Who said anything about doing a head? Everybody calm yersellves down and wait for the damage report.

Mr. Sulu.... Damage report! Gimme pics and an intelligent appraisal.

[lowenschlo]

Ok so, as soon as I clock out from the grinder, im heading home and diagnosing where the coolant leak is coming from. I will take and post pictures of things that look beyond my knowledge or that give me second guesses.
aside from that my purchased list is as follows:
lindsey racing vacuum kit
Lindsey racing head gasket SET
to be purchased:
(More than likely) water pump/ gaskets
Balance shaft belts
Anything else ill need?

[89-944NA]

If you have do the water pump you'll also need a thermostat and snap ring. But before you dive in and pull the head, do a compression test (a leakdown test would be better), and make sure your head gasket is blown.

Oil leaking from the cam/head junction is common, remember you are dealing with a 24 year old car, with old brittle/cracking/shrinking gaskets.

Here are a couple of things to check in helping to determine if your head gasket is blown;

1) Drain your oil, pull the plug out a short distance and look for coolant in the oil (a small
breach in the HG may not allow enough coolant into the oil to see if you just pull the plug
all the way out and let it drain).

2) Remove your oil filler cap, is there whiteish "milkshake" looking gunk on the inside of the
cap or in the filler tube (or both)?

3) Is there an oil in your coolant tank?

4) If you have the capability to do it, get a cooling system pressure tester, and pressurize
your cooling system, check to see that it is holding pressure over a period of time.

5) Pull your spark plugs and look into the combustion chamber, does the top of one (or more)
piston look cleaner than the rest? If you have access to a bore scope, you can insert it
into the combustion chamber and take a look, if not, use a flashlight and a mirror (unless
you want to lay on your fender or engine).

Anything I forgot guys? Jump right in and add to this list.

These are just some "preliminary" things to check, but nothing beats doing a leakdown test.

Ask lots of questions, people here are more than willing to lend a hand.

[lowenschlo]

i forgot to add tha i also purchased a thermostat, but i havent purschased the ring. and what would i need to perform a leakdown test??

[89-944NA]

A leakdown tester and a compressor.

[lowenschlo]

thats what i thought, better safe than sorry!! (especially with a porsche!!!!) 944na- ill be in touch!!

thanks all!

[Brozoar]

Nothing intelligent to add because it's not something I'm familiar with. Just wanted to say:

Originally Posted by SolReaver

Mr. Sulu.... Damage report! Gimme pics and an intelligent appraisal.

Nice Star Trek reference there, Kirk...