Got a free 944, but can I make it run?

[VINCENZ0]

Been lurking on Pelican for awhile and a couple weeks ago I stumbled across the post here for the free 944. I wasn't the first to respond, but after a few of you backed our or perhaps very wisely chickened out, the seller contacted me to tell me it was mine if I wanted it.

So my buddy and I headed down to pick up the car. The car is pretty complete minus some interior bits and the owner had done a lot of work to it roughly 5 years ago to get it ready to put back on the road. Some of the work that I've since verified since inspecting the car is new timing belt, new pulleys, new water pump, new spark plugs, new distributor, new fuel pump, new fuel filter, new starter, new wheels, new tires (I actually paid him in the end for the wheels and tires), new brake lines, new brake pads, new clutch master and slave...really it's a lot of stuff!

I thought maybe I'd post my little adventure of trying to get it running here.

I'm sure I'll have lots of questions as it's the first 944 I've worked on. My son and I are working on it together (he's 15) and it's about the first time I've seen him excited to do a project like this...so that has already been a win. Maybe it'll be his car when we're done? Who knows.

Here's a picture after the first wash.



As I said, the interior need some help, but I'll worry about that once I know the engine runs. Here's a shot of the interior. It did come with seats that are in pretty nice condition though.




Aside from a little cleanup, here's what I've done to get it ready to even attempt to start it:

- Remove spark plugs and turn engine by hand
- Discovered front crank pulley bolt was loose, so ordered the flywheel lock and torqued that
- Checked timing marks to ensure everything lines up
- Drained old fuel and put in fresh fuel
- Added distilled water to up coolant
- Checked oil, looks brand new but I think I'll change it before any actual usage beyond just seeing if the car will start
- Replaced steering wheel ignition switch which had been taken apart (looks like a new plastic switch was installed)

The previous owner said the car has an electrical problem. Next step is to pick up a battery for it and try to turn it over.

[VINCENZ0]

Tonight I actually tried hooking it up to one of those CAT jump starter things to try to crank it over, but I don't know if that really has enough juice. I got the interior lights to come on and a clicking sound, but no tach bounce.

I did the DME fuel pump jumper and confirmed the fuel pump is working and ran that for a little bit to get fuel into the lines.

Resistance on the reference and speed sensors tested OK (sort of -- the pins 8-27 and 25-26 tested about 900 ohms resistance, but the others didn't register at all, it says >1M ohms on clarks garage) when I checked in the engine compartment but NOT at the DME connector pins under the dash.

The connectors on the sensors are super old and the previous owner said that those sensors were a potential problem area for this car -- it sounded like at one point the sensors had been mixed up, but there was white paint labeling B and D on the wiring harness side so I think they are hooked up properly.

Will have a better sense when I get an actual battery for the car tomorrow.

[Dano944]

Wow! That is impressive what you’ve done. Sadly it looks like what many people do…do a scatter-brain self-fixit process where nothing gets fixed, just a lot of stuff gets dismantled to fix something, then either boredom or frustration sets in, so dismantle something else.
It is impressive that you can and have done so much work yourself. I’d say find a repair shop that will work on Transaxle Porsches, but I’d bet no one would want to touch it until your car is completed. Then, like the Porsche shops I’ve used, they could help you with a pin-pointed problem to fix. I’m sure no repair shop want a “project” car to be their “project”.

[walfreyydo]

Originally Posted by VINCENZ0

The connectors on the sensors are super old and the previous owner said that those sensors were a potential problem area for this car -- it sounded like at one point the sensors had been mixed up, but there was white paint labeling B and D on the wiring harness side so I think they are hooked up properly.

Will have a better sense when I get an actual battery for the car tomorrow.

You might want to get new speed/reference sensors, just to be sure. Resistance tests are ok, but you really need an oscilloscope to properly read the signal. Check the sensor plugs above the intake manifold, these usually get very brittle and break, causing issues. You may even need to get a speed/reference sensor harness (all the wiring from the sensors to the DME) if the wiring is in bad shape.

Before going any further however, you should start with a simple spark and fuel pressure test. Determining which you lack can start leading you down the diagnostic steps, which will be different depending. Sounds like the fuel pump kicked on and you have fuel pressure, but measuring pressure at the rail can reveal some important issues (for instance, pressure too high due to a failed FPR can cause injectors not to fire).

Sounds like you have found CLarks Garage, but if not, you should spend some time reading through this page and all the sub pages (such as diagnosing fuel issues or spark issues): https://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/ts-01.htm

[VINCENZ0]

Originally Posted by Dano944

Wow! That is impressive what you’ve done. Sadly it looks like what many people do…do a scatter-brain self-fixit process where nothing gets fixed, just a lot of stuff gets dismantled to fix something, then either boredom or frustration sets in, so dismantle something else.
It is impressive that you can and have done so much work yourself. I’d say find a repair shop that will work on Transaxle Porsches, but I’d bet no one would want to touch it until your car is completed. Then, like the Porsche shops I’ve used, they could help you with a pin-pointed problem to fix. I’m sure no repair shop want a “project” car to be their “project”.

Just to be clear, the previous owner did all that stuff. I'm trying to be a bit more deliberate in terms of figuring out what's wrong with the car.

[VINCENZ0]

Originally Posted by walfreyydo

You might want to get new speed/reference sensors, just to be sure. Resistance tests are ok, but you really need an oscilloscope to properly read the signal. Check the sensor plugs above the intake manifold, these usually get very brittle and break, causing issues. You may even need to get a speed/reference sensor harness (all the wiring from the sensors to the DME) if the wiring is in bad shape.

Before going any further however, you should start with a simple spark and fuel pressure test. Determining which you lack can start leading you down the diagnostic steps, which will be different depending. Sounds like the fuel pump kicked on and you have fuel pressure, but measuring pressure at the rail can reveal some important issues (for instance, pressure too high due to a failed FPR can cause injectors not to fire).

Sounds like you have found CLarks Garage, but if not, you should spend some time reading through this page and all the sub pages (such as diagnosing fuel issues or spark issues): https://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/ts-01.htm

Yes, the connector on the sensor side was very brittle and basically crumbling apart. The harness side looked ok from a visual inspection.

Given they'll take a few days to arrive, I'll probably go ahead and order both the sensors. Are the 944online ones good? Bosch? Magneti Marelli?

Pelican and FCP Euro seem to have them too with lifetime replacement warranties.

https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/94460611500.htm?pn=944-606-115-00-M14&bc=c&SVSVSI=0754

Good call on the spark and fuel pressure. Will check them both first.

[Jfrahm]

It might be better to just replace the connector, this might be the correct part:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/323967147077

Replacing sensors can introduce new problems and questions/concerns about the quality of the new replacement, gap, etc.

The sensors themselves are quite robust, it's basically a 1-string electric guitar pickup.
-Joel.

[VINCENZ0]

Thanks Joel! I did see the how-to on adjusting the gap, although it sounded like in most cases the sensors can be swapped without needing an adjustment?

The sensors appear to be original to the car. Should the wires leading to them be flexible like normal wires? Mine are extremely rigid.

[Mr. Merk]

You may also find that the injectors are stuck. We've had success getting them to operate with some encouraging tapping. If you get it running I'd send them off to be cleaned, tested and resealed. I've used motorman several times, mostly with success.

[huskerick1]

I may be able to help you w/injectors for testing... also an AFM. Drop me a PM and can chat more...

Rick

[Jfrahm]

Originally Posted by VINCENZ0

Thanks Joel! I did see the how-to on adjusting the gap, although it sounded like in most cases the sensors can be swapped without needing an adjustment?

Probably, but it might be difficult to know if you are one of those cases.

the wires should flex, maybe they should be replaced, but IMO you want to mess around with as little as possible when trying to get running or risk going from having one no-start issue to three. I've run with a crumbled connector body, it's not going to prevent running. It'd just be one of 100 things to improve on a running car.

[Monkey Wrench]

it may be likely that the "casing" that the sensor wires run in is brittle and the wires inside are actually OK.

I also agree with not upsetting things too much before it starts. if it fires up then your sensors do work, good,, then you may still replace for reliability reasons.

I made a pressure bottle with a gauge and a tap to open the injector to pressure,, then I backflush and check my injectors and the pintles and washers are cheap you can send them in as cores and have them rebuilt.

what id do is spray from the rail and just look see if they all spray and shut off after. no drips. if they look ok change all the washers and O rings and put back..

you'll have to act as your own fire safety marshall Think about safety a while before you anything stupid like atomize gas and explode yourself.

they do have filets and what I found backflushing I found non plugged up , so I left them be. there is a special tool to pull the little screens out. it looks like a sheet metal screw.. but with a little thimble thing turn to pull ( jack) it out of there. I went thinking I;d use a little hunk of cable and a weight like a slidehammer but found they were not plugged and decided I don't need to create an issue..

I know the ( nylon? ) gasoline screens in tanks can sort of rot and it may be a similar material , perhaps attacked over time by the new style , crappy gasohol.

you can also get new chinese ones, I can't vouch for their quality , possibly fine?

sure send them out if you have a good place that will do it..

I put injectors in my van and had real trouble pushing the buggers back in the fuel rail, the trick i learned was to use bootlaces, I make like a little bridal wrapped around the "snout" tie the 4 strings around the fuel rail and twist with a screwdriver that pushed them in right , otherwise I found that part really tough going..

in my cas I installed them in a ford van , its manifold wraps all around so its not easy to get there. well they leaked, one wasn't; seated quite right in the fuel rail then I had to take it all apart..

now I have them securely bound to the fuel rail with stainless steel wire just for safety..

the fuel rail bolts actually prevent them from backing off but I had a struggle and it ended up I just didn' t have one pressed all the way right in .. you can also get the o ring cocked and then the only way out of that is to start over.

when you seat them make sure they are in all the way you can make a gauge block to measure with,, I found a nut that i liked for size .. tied a string on it ,, and used that as my gauge block. to check they are all seated by the exact same amount...

if one is pushed in less than any other , in the block or in the fuel rail , find out why . you can find a nut or something before you even pull them so you have a good visual or feel ,, reference.

if an O ring does fold over and cock you can get it in but it won't go that last bit and then you have to pull it out.. a gauge block helps check that has not happened.

it is very tight in my van your access is way better in a car. if you pull them buy new O rings at least.

if you take them to rebuild , take the fuel rail too,, let him get them seated in for you.

maybe some are tighter than others.. bit id say in my 6 cyl van it was actually a lot harder than I thought .. I had previously done volvo ones with very little issue.

from now foreword I'll use that boot lace trick.
avoid dropping them on their nose. .put some rags down in case you do drop them, to act as a cushion that tiny pin can be hit in a fall , and that will mess them up.

[VINCENZ0]

Ok update since installing a battery. Engine cranks and turns over but no tach needle movement.

Pulled #1 plug and confirmed engine has spark. Plug wires were very difficult to seat in spark plug holes but I think they're all on securely now

Pulled plug from fuel rail and it has fuel but need to get a pressure tester.

Does anyone know what this dangling white connector under the dash goes to?

[VINCENZ0]

[wwdwgs]

This connector was mentioned on PP forum some time ago. IIRC, this connector is for some option or other model. Still, you need to search more or wait for an answer.

[VINCENZ0]

Here's the first of hopefully a series of videos covering my adventure of bringing this car back to life!

Feel free to laugh at me, or with me. Whatever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbiKZfkXteQ

[dme]

It looks like a fun project, but remember the first rule of Porsche ownership: There is no such thing as a cheap Porsche.

[Monkey Wrench]

if it has a spark try spraying in some quick start, if it;ll run on that leave the sensors alone , it has a spark. then check fuel pressure.

I managed to find a proper fuel presure tester but before that I simply plumbed in a gauge like one for a compressor. best to use fuel rated line.

the one I got was a rental on the discount bin but it had all the fittings, could use a fresh hose.
you might be able to rent one. new the one I got is listed about 140 bucks and it comes with a voltmeter. I looked at the ones on the shelf at the auto parts store and they were plastic garbage.

[Monkey Wrench]

if it has a spark try spraying in some quick start, if it;ll run on that leave the sensors alone , it has a spark. then check fuel pressure.

I managed to find a proper fuel pressure tester but before that I simply plumbed in a gauge like one for a compressor. best to use fuel rated line.

the one I got was a rental on the discount bin but it had all the brass fittings, could use a fresh hose. it has a valve to purge it of air.
you might be able to rent one. mine was an older rental so it was a little rough.

a new the one I got is listed about 140 bucks and it comes with a voltmeter. you might find it cheaper. I looked at the ones on the shelf at the auto parts store and they were plastic garbage.
probably a place that sells hoses and fittings can set you up if you want it cheaper. I don't think the gauge itself is really any different than that of a air compressor..