Suspension upgrad question

[pjo046]

My 1986 944 Turbo has a 24mm sway bar front and 18mm in the back, which is stock. It has the stock torsion bars which are 23.5mm.

The rear shocks have been upgraded to adjustable yellow Konis, and the front springs have been upgraded to some lowering springs of unknown brand (unknown to me, recently bought the car and the PO didn't know either as it was the owner before him that installed them). They look like they are progressive.

This setup works ok for me as I almost only drive on the street, but the rear is a little soft when I accelerate so that it settles down too much. Therefore I am thinking of upgrading to Turbo S torsion bars (25.5mm). Also I can get a 26.8mm front sway bar for cheap. Will these to upgrades work well in conjunction with each other and with the rest of my current suspension? What changes should I expect too see with these upgrades with regards to handling and also ride comfort?

Or should I perhaps just dial the konis stiffer, and that will take care of the problem with the rear setling down under acceleration?

Btw, will I be able to fit the 26.8mm sway bar in place of the 24mm I have now only by buying new bushings, or will the drop links and/or the "mounting eyes" need to be replaced for larger versions?

[porschetub]

Dial is the shocks as you may find the heavier bars too firm,that was my experience with stock shocks anyway.

[rick13]

Say...have you noticed any tracking problems due to the change in camber (from the lowering springs)? I dropped my car about an inch. When I hit a change in groove in the road, the car veers one way or the other. Weird! Seemingly dangerous.

[rick13]

Oh and I agree, stiffen up the back, it worked for me.

[pjo046]

The lowering springs were on when I bought the car a month ago, so I don't know how it would ride when stock. But mine also follows the tracks/groves in the road. Think I need to have it realligned. I am changing the front control arm bushings and the rear spring plate bushings, so a reallignment is in order anyhow.

Does anybody know if it is possible to fit the 26.8mm front sway bar in place of the original 24mm version just by upgrading the bushings? Or are droplinks etc needed?

Is the 944 Turbo S a very stiff ride? If I upgrade the torsion bars and the front sway bar, it will only be upgraded to Turbo S spec. So if the Turbo S has good ride comfort, it should be ok.

[Cocacolakidd]

The 26.8mm front bar and the larger rear bar can be installed with the change in bushings and front bushing retainers. The rear squat when accelerating will not change with a larger rear bar. Re-adjust the rear shocks will help allot. The sway bars are for flatter cornering not up and down motions.

Most likely the lowering springs there are Weltmeister (Sounds like). Weltmeister makes the lowering springs for the 944 in progressive style. Weltmeister progressive are 1 1/4" drop and 250 pound spring rate. The higher spring weight in front makes the rear easier to squat like that (Normal spring weight for the front of your car is 165 pound - so no wonder you feel it). One notch stiffer on the rear shocks will help.

If you do go to the 26.8 front bar balance it out with a larger rear bar also or the handling will be far off - at least a 18mm, or best match is a 19mm rear bar. The matched bars will help keep the car flatter in the corners.

[pjo046]

Thank you very much for that informative post! :-) So by upgrading the front springs, one gets more rear squat under accelerating if the rear isn't upgraded at the sime time. If I upgrade the torsion bars in the rear, that will equalise things once more, and then maybe I won't need to adjust the shocks any stiffer? And that way keep the ride comfort I have?

I already have a 18mm rear sway bar, so that means it should suffice right? Bear in mind that this will be a street car, if it sees a track at all it will be once a year or something like that.

With front bushing retainers you mean these?: FRONT HANGER CLIPS FOR '86 MODELS at LINDSEY RACING - Your Porsche Performance Parts Center Will these fit although they are meant for 30mm bushings?

[Cocacolakidd]

Those front hanger clips are what you will need to up-grade for a larger bar. Both the rubber bushings and the hanger clips will need to fit the size of a new bar.

The standard size of Torsion bars in your car now are 23.5mm or 24mm, so you could look around and find some 25.5mm sway bars off of a Turbo M030 set-up. You could find a set of 28mm sway bars, but almost guaranteed those 28's will be to big for the set-up, and a harsher ride.

To replace the rear Torsion Bars is a PITA as they must be indexed when installing. In other words the splines on the ends of the bars have to be indexed with the suspension female socket splines to gain a correct ride height (See: Clark's Garage Home Page for details on replacing the Torsion Bars).

According to the 24mm size of the front bar the rear bar at 18mm is maxed out. Any larger bar in rear and you will start to experience gross under-steer which is not a fun thing. Plus a larger bar there will not help the accelerating squat in the slightest.

[pjo046]

Thanks again for valuable information.

What I meant about asking if 18mm sway bar in the rear would be ok, is that the Turbo S and the later Turbo had 18mm sway bars in the rear although they had 26.8mm up front, at least according to the information I have been able to find on the subject.

[J1NX3D]

Originally Posted by pjo046

Thanks again for valuable information.

What I meant about asking if 18mm sway bar in the rear would be ok, is that the Turbo S and the later Turbo had 18mm sway bars in the rear although they had 26.8mm up front, at least according to the information I have been able to find on the subject.

I have these both on my n/a. on the street and on the track it is a good arrangement.

i'd just like to ask too, are stock turbo torsion bars a suitable match for either 200lb or 250lb springs? I already have a pair of 25mm bars and i'm wondering which springs to get.

[Cocacolakidd]

The 18mm rear bar will fit nicely with a 26.8 front, and be a great balance. Some even fit a 16mm rear bar to a 26.8 front bar, but in your case with the stiffer springs in front the 18mm would work much better.

[Cocacolakidd]

200 # springs will be a good match for the 25mm torsion bars - 250# rate with 28mm torsions - there again there are allot of conditions that may differ and may need to be accounted for - an experienced person can make better choices to tune their suspension most correctly.

[andyshoun]

Cocacolakidd, I think you made an error in your sway bar reply;

".. Any larger bar in rear and you will start to experience gross under-steer which is not a fun thing. .."

An overly stiff rear sway bar will cause over-steer. Putting a too heavy bar in the front should cause under-steer.

[Contadino]

I have some 25.5 torsion bars if you need them. $80