my 944 is slow
 

i just installed a motor in a 944 i bought and this is the first 944 i've ever driven so i'm not sure how it's really supposed to act, but mine is way slower than it should be i think??

#1 it's very slow at low rpm's (acts like a bug)
untill it hits about 4000rpm and then it seems like a switch goes off and it picks up alot

i dunno, i had a 92 chevy cavalier with a 2.2L front wheel drive iron block and that thing was WAY faster than my 944!?!?!?! so i think something must be wrong?

#2 i've heard all the stories of people getting their stock 944's up to 160mph so i get on the freeway and floor it into a long straight and it tops out at 120!! please sombody tell me that my car is messed up and that 944's are not really this slow!!

Is it an automatic? If its a 5 speed theres probably something wrong. (timing?) But....they aren't super fast in the first place.

No stock 944 N/A is going to run 160 mph. I'm sure someone will argue that it will but until I'm in the car with them I'll never believe it. It's not true. 130-145 is more of the realistic range.

Did you just rebuild an engine and put it in there? You say you just put a motor in so something probably just needs adjusting, because I'm pretty sure it'll stomp your cavalier.

Good Luck, let us know. SmileWavy

944's aren't fast. Sorry to burst yer bubble. But it shouldn't be terribly slow either.

All of them are. If you don't like it sell it.

Well if you are used to driving 951's and cars of that sort it would feel kinda slow. Though it should feel like a rocket compared to a cavalier, I know my 84 944 does. Oh and I had mine going 140mph at least that is what the speedo said:)

Did you drive a 944 before you bought this one, then put in an engine? The engine does become stronger over 4,000 rpm, but it's more of a smooth controlled progression because of the 2.5L 8V's flat torque curve. The horsepower has a similar linear progression to just below redine of 6500.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate...s/944power.jpg

US 944's have a top end limited by horsepower and wind resistance. They quote 130 mph, but downhill with the wind you can go faster. All the engine mods available for an NA might bump that number to the low 140s if you're lucky.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate...oads/5sped.jpg

The engine loves to be rev'd up to redline, unlike the old chevy pushrod 4. Sounds like you need to have someone who know's 944's drive it to see if you just don't know how to drive it or if there is really something wrong with the car.

Ditto on the timing. Check for exhaust blockage, worn cat and what not. It should feen better than a Cavalire, espically as the baove post stated. Keep the RPM'S high. NA's like that 2500 to 4k area.

well i figured out what most of the problem was
my O2 sensor has some messed up wires and it was giving incorrect output i guess? so under the advice of a member here i pulled off the wired to me O2 sensor and now it is much faster at low rpm's and and intermittent idle problem i was having is gone too so now it can ralley with my friends 2nd gen rx7 he pulls me in the straights but i waste him in the corners
the top speed on the freeway is still the same but it gets there A LOT faster(well i got it up to 125mph but that's because i held it to 6500 in 4th before shifting to 5th)

so now i'm gunna try cleaning the injectors, changing the spark plugs and installing a new O2 sensor(the engine is straight out of a wrecked 86 944 i havn't changed any of that tune up stuff yet) ...(well exept the oil of course)

i still think the timing is retarded a bit, but i don't know how to change the timing?? it's controlled by the computer right?

i checked my cat, i unbolted it and ran it with an open pipe and i didn't notice much difference

timing
 

so yeah i really think my timing is a little retarded because it just kinda acts that way, (i've retarded the timing for smog checks in other cars so i kinda know how it acts when that is happening) and when i am getting on the gas a lot it starts to get a bit hot and that is another sign of retarded timing, so does anybody know if it is possibe to adjust the timing?

I was driving my 944S2 for about a year before finaly deciding to do a top end rebuild. Before it was really slow only managing about 143mph down the hill on a long stretch.

I would go and mesure the compression straight away and if that shows OK I would go and check if I don't have a broken valve spring.

When I rebuild my head, I had 2 broken valve springs and a burned out exhaust valve which was a result of driving the car with broken valve spring. I haven't done a top speed test yet but the car feels considerable faster and smoother then before. I would expect 150mph will be possible, and it will also go there much quicker.

".... with my friends 2nd gen rx7 he pulls me in the straights but i waste him in the corners..."


Hmmm... I have driven many RX7s (I own an 82 first generation)... but a stock 2nd generation RX7 should not be able to easily pull on you on the straights if your 944 is running right. In fact, you should be marginally faster. Both the 944 and the second generation RX7 are very similar in horsepower and weight (the 944 has a tiny bit more power and torque). But the 944 definitely should have the edge.

2 years ago, I was very seriously in the market for either a 944 or a second generation RX7. Over the period of (at least) a year, I had the opportunity to drive many 944's and sec gen RX7s. All of the 944's with the exception of two, were considerably more powerful than any of the sec gen RX7s that I drove... and believe me I looked hard for a good RX7. None of them were faster than my first generation 82 RX7, even though they had bigger 13B engines... they were slower that my 82. However, several 944's were quite a bit quicker than my 82.

Eventually, I settled on an 87 924S... which will blow the doors off my old RX7... and any second generation (naturally aspirated!) RX7.

Anyway the moral of the story is that you should be at least as fast as your friend in the RX7 (assuming he's stock... but even then, there's not a lot you can do to the non-turbo rotaries to get significant HP gains without spending major bucks).


I'd recommend getting a full tune-up for your car first... new plugs etc.

-MAS

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. My best guess would be that he raced a turbo RX-7. Those late 2nd generation turbo IIs are pretty fast, probably on par with a 951 (non-S).

Nah a turbo II can't keep up with a 951 unless either the rx7 is modded or the 951 isn't running right. a stock rx7 t II has 200 hp.

2g Rx7 can keep up with a 86 951...I have a R&T article to prove it.

http://members.rennlist.com/adrial/R&T%20article.jpg

Not being the one to argue, but that article shows the RX-7 turbo II to be slower in all areas except a slight edge in the slalom, and a full 5 mph slower at the end of a quarter mile. With the top end being 10 mph lower also, 951's would munch on RX-7 turbo II's all day long. :D

um dude, did you actually read the article? lol the 951 is .6 seconds 0 - 60, 5 seconds faster trap speed, .6 !! faster in the 1/4... thats a huge fricking distance man lol

the rx7 i was racing was a 1988 13b standard edition totally stock, i actually sold the car to him heh, it's pretty fast, it gets rubber in 3rd and he's had it up to 138 before he ran out of road..... when i bought my 944 i was expecting similar performance and i'm confident that it is there to be had if i just get my car running right
i'm going to replace my o2 sensor, change my plugs and if that doesn't do it i'll pull out my injectors and get than cleaned, then i'll race the rx7 again and let you guys know how it goes ;)


so does anyone know how the DME knows when to retard the timing say if you are using bad gas and getting ping? ...is there a knock sensor??

Oops...my bad. sorry.

I read it a while ago, my memory failed me. What can I say...I'm getting old! haha..

I have an old issue of Motor Trend somewhere that has the turbo II 0-60 time being close to 6 seconds flat. That's what I was basing my statement on.

"...the rx7 i was racing was a 1988 13b standard edition totally stock, i actually sold the car to him heh, it's pretty fast, it gets rubber in 3rd and he's had it up to 138 before he ran out of road..... "

As an RX7 (and Porsche) owner... I can tell you that you have (or had) the fastest stock 88 on the planet. Shame you sold it, eh?

-MAS

it was the O2 sensor
 

so yes i finally replaced my O2 sensor when i had to go in for a smog and it made a big difference!
it's like i was expecting it to be when i bought it now. unfortunatly i can't race my friend with the rx7 again though.....he sold the rx7 after buying an 83 944 with a 951 motor and turbo heh.
but yeah it's much faster than it was now, before it would chirp 2nd gear and not it gets kinda sideways and squeels shifting to 2nd i havn't tried a top speed run yet but i'm sure it's more than it was before.:)

The answer for igintion timing is no. All timing adjustments are made by the DME. There are chips that are available to enhance performance, I have heard that these are a waste of time and money.

I had a simular problem when I first got my 83 944. The problem turned out to be a couple of faulty plug wires. They would fail intermittantly, so It was hard to diagnose. Usually they would fail when I was being shown up by a couple kids in a ricer; way too embarassing!

Interesting stuff. I have had my 86 944 for about a week now and I also think its lacking smewhat. I have driven many a 944 and (RX-7's) ha ha...I have checked some of the spark plugs and they seem good, and the wires look ok too, I haven't checked the cap & rotor yet, or the O2 sensor? Only mods are a K&N filter & test pipe...

the O2 sensor i used as a replacement was the one wire universal from bosch it's $39 at kragens and i noticed a difference in the idle right away, it went from 750rpm to 1000rpm. i think that the difference in oidle rpm came from the computer advancing the idnition timing once it had data from the O2 sensor to go by....someone told be before that with a bad O2 sensor my dme was probably in a default safety mode which would retard the timing to avoid ping. this seems probable since if you adjust the timing on a car that can actually be adjusted retard the timing will drop the rpms and advancing will increase the rpm's. so if your car seemsway too slow off the line as mine did it may be the O2 sensor?

You really can't compare or have judgement at this point. There wouldn't be any value to them until you get your 944 serviced. Too many things that haven't been done--namely, a tune-up.

Make sure your clutch isn't slipping either. Don't think about modding too much. You'll be better off with a 951 for that. The 944 is most fun in the twisties with great torque/handling. I've had mine for ten years, and have done many things to try to boost power, short of nitrous oxide or forced induction--but here are the things that I've found to provide the most improvement with the least amount of cashola:

exhaust any good cat-back system will help. However, I've reverted back to my stock exhaust--mainly because I like the sound and didn't notice a big enough improvement anyway. Porsche did their homework on exhaust and the stock one provides a good balance between hp/noise.
tuned header I have the Bursch, which was made to work with a test pipe but I modded my cat to fit. I noticed more midrange oomph after I did this. MSDS makes some nice looking tuned headers too.
intake MSDS makes a cone filter adaptor, and helps--although I've reverted to the stock airbox with a drop-in K&N (mainly because I like the stock look)
throttle cam it won't make your car faster, but it'll feel faster
sport clutch/lightened flywheel this provided the biggest improvement for me. It reduces rotational mass right at the engine, so a notable gain is realized. woo hoo!
lighter wheels Porsche fuchs are light and strong. I'm looking for some 15x7s and 8s

I haven't changed the chip, because the stock ECU does a good job of adjusting the air/fuel mixture...read up on grassroots motorsports magazine's project 944. They tried different chips on the dyno with their mods, and none of them worked better than the stock one.

The 944's not a rocketship. There's the 951 for that. The 944 is way faster at 60-120 than at 0-60. And with some familiarization and driving skill, you can pretty much whoop cars that cost three times more on any track or backroad...and STOP DRAG RACING...Porsches weren't designed for that. If you wanna drag race, GO BUY A CAMARO

i like to drag race the imports around here, it's REALLY big i pulled up behind a couple rice burners with alluminum wings and stickers at a stop light and they were looking at eachother and reving, so when the light changed they both launched racing eachother and i couldn't resist, i floored it and flew past both cars from behind like they were standing still within a 1 or 2 block distance, by the next stop light they were specs in my mirror and they both drove past me while i was in the turn lane really fast without looking

About 95% of rice-racers out there have done nothing but reduce the performance of their cars by adding on weight with big wings/body kits/wheels--in addition to changing the chip to something with more claimed horsepower, when in actuality, it reduces horsepower. The ones that DO add horsepower, only add maybe 1-3 hp, if they're lucky--and that doesn't come without losing some low end power either.
Do they really think that Billy-Joe over at Cooter's who just got one o dem fancy computer chip mapper programs can do better than a team of highly-educated, highly paid engineers at one of the biggest car manufacturers of the world? These are the people that made variable valve timing a reality--I'll bet I could blow them away with my sister's stock Toyota Tercel with 13" wheels.

Some of those dumb-asses actually think that the louder it is, the faster it must be.

Forced induction kits are the only mods on those cars that are worth the money. Don't waste your gas on them.

I'm just kiind of snooping around here, but the craziest thing about that article was that there were two 4 cyl. cars compared with an american v8 "flagship". Now, the corvette is, at least lately, a very fast var. But, isn't it amazing?

Yeah, that's what I noticed too. And the 951 wasn't too far away from the v8 corvette. Impressive.

About the only imports I think are menacing are Honda CRX's with a big intercooler in front.


RBT.

hehehe.......yeah, my friend with the BIG v8 in his corvette zr1 gets awful pissed off when my lil' 4 banger hands him his a$$!

Another friend of mine with a viper big a$$ v10 is scared to even try my lil' 4 banger.........F'ing hilarious!!

haha wow your friend with the viper must be a rich pussy? i rented a viper in vegas once and it was f#$%ing scarry fast....well scarry when my brother was driving, but just fun when i was driving, one of the things i liked most was stomping on the gas and having the rear end instantly do a 180

hey does anyone know if changing from 87 to 92 octane in a stock 944 na will make any kind of performance difference... i know in cars that have knock sensors using better gas will make a difference, but the early 944 has no knock sensor i'm pretty sure?

My 86 NA turns into a volkwagon bus full of hippies when I use 87. 91 is smooth, so I stick with it. I once put 115 octane in there when I went to Sears Point Raceway (They've got 76 race gas at the pump there) and WOO HOO--wish I could run the race gas all the time!

Oh.......i'll hand his viper it's a$$ too ;-)

You need to run 92. It says it right there on the filler door........what, you can't read German ;-)

If you read English, those numbers actually translate to 87 octane (for the NA) ;)

Well then i stand corrected.........if you say so(i can't read German, and barely English)

I would still run the 92 personally.

I won't argue with you there. The cost difference is minimal over the long haul.