951-1987 Vs 1989

scottmandue · 06-28-2002, 11:00 AM

In my quest my ideal P-car I have seen some dream cars however I then check my budget and reality comes crashing in. Performance was at the top of my list so in order of preference I was looking at the 968 - Turbo S -944S2

Now I am becoming more realistic and have put price as top priority and I want a car in good condition so the 968 has fallen down the list because they are a little over my budget that bumps the turbo S and S2 up. However considering the possibilities now the 1987 turbo has wiggled it's way onto the list as "the most bang for your buck" fitting nicely between the S2(210HP) and turbo S(250HP).

So are there any turbo guys out there who have driven or own(ed) a 87 and a turbo S/1989 turbo and how do the two compare?

geoffbaltz · geoffbaltz's Garage

I have an 86 951. A friend has an '87 Turbo and another friend has an 88 Turbo S.

I have driven the 2 cars that are not mine.

I love my '86. I wanted an 86 because I didn't want ABS since I use it on the track. If it wasn't for that, I would go with an 87 or 88 Turbo non-S.

With my chips, exhaust, suspension, and LBE, my 86 outruns my friends stock 88 Turbo S all the time.

My other friend's 87 Turbo is now highly modified but when stock was identical to my 86 when they were both stock. One advantage of the post-86 models is that you have more wheel and tire options because of the change in the spindles and the offset when they went to ABS.

I think you can spend a lot more money for a stock Turbo S and not have near the performance of a modified non S 951. If you are going to modify the S, your bang-for-the-buck factor decreases because of your initial outlay.

If you want to leave the car bone stock, go for the Turbo S because is does come with some nice goodies. If you want to mod the car, don't waste your money on the Turbo S.

IMHO.

-g

kenny · 06-28-2002, 04:15 PM

old fart,
Hey look -- any 951 is going to kick your namby-pamby NA's arse from C 2 shining C. I have an '86 -- bone stock and I really like this car. I didn't worry about ABS because the brakes on these cars are huge and I really liked the Fuchs alloys -- which don't agree with the later cars.

I agree with geoffbaltz -- the newer ('87 and beyond) 951's have more choices for the wheels but you're going to drive it like an old lady anyways so what does it matter!

The whole feel of a 951 is different. The trany feels more robust (it is), there is way more torque, etc. I love spooling her up! I think you would be enormously happy with any of them. If you do decide to 'hotrod' it later, the turbos have so many more options than an S2. The turbos are very reliable too [because they were well designed]. There really aren't too many issues with a turbo that a NA doesn't already have.

I've been reading your posts for a while, and for what you are looking for, I think you'd be happy with any of them. The key is to get a car that has been well taken care for. Since there were more '86's sold than any other, I still think you have as much chance of finding a well cared for '86 as any other.

The only problem with the S's is that they are going to set you back $3-4K more for the same condition early 951. Of course you live out in the land of cheap Poeches so maybe you can find a deal -- mine wasn't so easy to find.

scottmandue · 06-28-2002, 04:51 PM

Okay guys now that you have me interested let me ask you.
How bad is the turbo lag? It is the only thing that makes me shy away from 951. My N/A is not great off the line, It's okay but it's no muscle car. The 951 is famous for it's "top end power" but what is a 87 turbo like off the line? Most of my driving is on canyon roads blasting around corners at medium speed how smooth is the power delivery? I like charging into corners at around 4000 RPM (in my N/A) will a 951 suddenly boost on me mid corner and send my flying off the road? Will the 951 help me loose weight, fight cancer, and reverse male pattern balding? (opps... got a little carried away there)

Booster · 06-29-2002, 09:38 AM

I don't know why you are limiting yourself to the 87-89's you can usually get a 86 a little cheaper and it's the same as a 87 except for the wheel offset and airbag (optional) and ABS (also optional), and if worried about the offset you can get wheel spacers to correct that. If you plan on doing ANY upgrades on the S you might as well purchase a 86-87-88 non S and save some money as they are just as upgradeable as a S. I went through the samething when looking for a 951, I went for the 86 because mine came with Fuchs (only one I could find with them also they are very light) and the 86 (have read some very early 87's, but dealer said not) have forged rods not cast, happy hunting and you will be happy with any year 951.

Russ
944T(951)

scottmandue · 06-29-2002, 10:05 AM

Thanks guys,

I was going to keep the car mostly stock (if I can find one that hasn't been moded!) so the S and '89 look sweet on paper (250HP Vs 220HP) but I suppose getting a extra 30HP out of a '86 or '87 is no big deal.
I don't need ABS however I know a few people who has been saved by air bags so I feel they are a good thing to have.
I also was sticking to the mantra "buy the newest, best condition Porsche you can find". It seems like when I read books and talk to people I get... "and the year after that Porsche added the super heavy duty framis"

Still searching,
Scott

kenny · 06-29-2002, 10:55 AM

Shcott,
Though the buy-the-newest-one-you-can-afford philosophy is a good rule of thumb, like I said there were a lot more '86's made, so your chance of finding a good one may be higher than a later one.

The turbo starts (stock) to kick in about 3500 and by 4000 its well on its way. It is not so abrupt that you will suddenly get slung off the corner!

I don't think any of these cars were really meant to drag race -- the 3 liter (though I've never actually driven one) would have a bit more torque off the line but most of you driving isn't going to be off-the-line -- is it?

For $400 clams you can buy the chip set and I think the HP is approximately the same as the 'S' -- so there you have it, all the cars are 13-15 years old. At that age it's all about how the car was taken care of.

As far as air bags -- I heard Highway Patrol guys say they almost never pull a dead body from a car where the seatbelts were being used. The problem was, and continues to be, people don't wear their seatbelts. Anyway, many of the '86's had airbags (drivers side) if you really feel you need one -- mine has been replaced with a 930 turbo S wheel. I don't worry about it because I wear my seatbelt. Not wearing your seatbelt is essentially volunteering to get out of the genepool and towel off!

Scott R · Scott R's Garage

I was just looking over this post and thought I would chime in. My 87' 951 does not have ABS at all, but does have airbags. And a HUGE bonus over the 86 is the upgraded belt tensioner. I change my belts in half the time as my olf 85.5.

scottmandue · 06-29-2002, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scott R
I was just looking over this post and thought I would chime in. My 87' 951 does not have ABS at all, but does have airbags. And a HUGE bonus over the 86 is the upgraded belt tensioner. I change my belts in half the time as my olf 85.5.

YOU READ MY MIND!

Seriously I just came back to the computer to post "yeah but didn't the post 86 cars have the built in belt tensioner thingie?"

Okay I'm going to call the person with the 87 951 for sale. the picture looks nice and it is a color I want but the price is low there has got to be something wrong with it or someone will snap it up before I can get to it.

Scottman here -
fashioning aluminum foil hat to keep my brainwaves from escaping. Still not sure I want to go over to the dark side

MNThaddeus · 06-30-2002, 05:36 AM

I have an 87 951 that's been 'lightly modded'. I have a Lindsey Boost Enhancer, Autothority Stage2 chips. My boost comes on at 3100 RPM and it will make an unprepared passenger scream in terror when the acceleration hits. I would like it if the boost came on earler-- say, 2000 k-- but frankly, once you're over 15 mph you can manage your gearbox to keep the rpms up and stay in the boosty range.

My car has SRS but no ABS.

cheers

Thaddeus

Z-man · Z-man's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by geoffbaltz
...I love my '86. I wanted an 86 because I didn't want ABS since I use it on the track. If it wasn't for that, I would go with an 87 or 88 Turbo non-S...
-g

Why don't you want ABS for the track? I track my S2 (PCA - DE) and the ABS is a nice safety net just in case my trail braking turns into a bad thing.

I wouldn't want to have any stability management system engaged while on the track, but ABS is a help. I've only felt the ABS kick in a few times while on the track. (Probably not braking enough!)

I believe in Michael Cotton's 924/944/968 book, in the chapter on 924/944 racing, he mentions the fact in the 944 Cup series, once the drivers got used to the newly mandated ABS systems in the cars, they were able to have faster lap times, since they were able to brake deeper into the corners.

And Scott: the 944S2 definately has better low end grunt than the turbo.

Just my biased views,
-Zoltan.

kgain968 · 07-01-2002, 11:13 AM

Scott there is a very nice guards red 1989 944 Turbo on ebay, great shape 125k lots of pics.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1839573620 ALSO an '88 guards red

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1840063578 ANDA white '88 low miles

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1839461890