where to begin with front suspension problems
 

I have a 90 944 S2 cab with 98K miles. The car has a loose feeling when traveling over bumpy roads (it doesn't feel like it's solidly on the ground). In addition, sharp turns in parking lots can produce a single popping sound from the left front, especially in reverse. I'm guessing it's the ball joints, control arms or struts, however, it doesn't have the worn shock bounciness when still tested. I'm not after an upgrade but will if reasonable. Where should I start my process of elimination to minimize my expense?

Your front control arms (with the balljoint) are shot. Since the balljoint is not removable by the home user the entire arm must be replaced. You can get them new or rebuilt - I've had good luck with the rebuilt ones - shop around, some places offer them with a warrenty

AFJuvat

AF Juvat, I am not disputing your reccomendation. On rennlist, however I followed a thread that discussed the options available for rebuilding your aluminum control arms. A linbk to a website was provided, and the website owner was a company that sold kits for rebuilding the balljoint in the aluminum 944 control arm. I don't know much about the procedure (but I believe that it included grinding out under the balljoint and replacing what was removed with JB Weld), but rebuilding the balljoint may be more cost effective. That said I don't know how much a set of rebuilt control arms costs, and they may be a real bargain compared to the rebuild. Has anyone rebuilt their control arms?

I was afraid that new control arms were needed. Still I wouldn't mind looking at that web site Taz. One source says original 944 ball joint replacement will require rivet removal and drilling for bolt replacement but the installation is fairly routine beyond that. On the other hand, my search for ball joints for a '90 S2 found them hard to find (which may be explained by the requirement to to replace the whole control arm). AF - are there adverse effects from replacing just one control arm for now? I have a garage, tools, general mechanical skills and have replaced a dozen or so non-internal engine components on the 944. Is the control arm swap out tricky? Is the ball joint replacement attempt a reasonable start (assuming I can find the website instructions and parts)? Also, you may know - the '90 S2 struts are hard to find too. I heard that someone makes some inserts that will work(?)

SoCal was also playing with the idea of rebuilding them. Had no idea about the link on rennlist, will have to check that out.

Yes, you can replace just one control arm - just keep in mind that if one is going the other one isn't too far behind it.

Replacing them isn't too difficult - hardest part is getting the old balljoint out (you'll need a pickle fork). You will probably require a wheel alignment after you replace it.

Control arms are $471 new and anywhere from $200 - $250 rebuilt.

AFJuvat

Still looking for the correct ball joint to rebuild the aluminum arms with. The replaceable ones from the early 944's are about 1/8" too small in ball diameter. The pin/shank that goes into the spindle is the correct size.

Have been looking for a "used" ball joint from the late 80's 911 arms to take apart. These have replaceable ball joints and may just be the correct size as these were introduced about the same time.

Anyone????

Also one needs to be darn careful of the socket in the aluminum arm. This should be dye checked if not x-rayed.

Hey boys!!

The choices are:

1) Turns out you can rebuild the aluminum a-arms and there was some disscusion over on rennlist about it. The guys that did it said it wern't too hard. So today, I myself, ordered the kit to rebuilt them. The kit, which replaced the ball joint only, is $175 for both sides plus $3.50 shipping. Basically the epoxy gets chipped out of the bottom of the a-arm, clip gets removed, ball pressed out and then proceedure is reversed. They use JB weld to re-epoxy the lower cup where the clip goes (much like the original). The very detail procedure is ar the following link:

http://www.ssiauto.com/porsche944/

Their regular website is http://www.ssiauto.com
phone number is 410-668-1100 I talked to Sloan.

2) buy new arms at pelican (they are kind of expensive) -- install -- hassle factor low. I never did hear back from them on the bushings -- there was some confusion with their on-line catalog -- I tried!! Pelican does not carry the parts to rebuild it.

3) rebuilt at Zimms -- balljoint is replaced and bushings are good or replaced -- $200 ea and $200/core. Bushings are subtracted from core price if they need to be replaced @ $34 each * 2 per side + $8 install. He said generally they need to be replaced if any oil has been leaking on them. One nice thing is that Zimm's adds a grease-zerk. I talked to Dennis.

http://www.***********/
1-800-356-2964

4) Dynamic European Technologies, Inc.
713-661-2780 for $150 ea. he will rebuild the balljoint portion of the a-arm.

Since I live not too far from Zimms I'll start on it on some Fri. night, and if I need the bushings (probably) I'll buzz over on Sat. morning and get them $34 * 2 * 2 = $136

I don't feel too bad about posting the other sources because the new arms are frankly going to be right out of a lot of guys capabillity and they will need an alternative method.

Not to disparage the kit you got from ssiauto but why spend $175 for ball joints when both can be bought new for $50?

I agree that the ssiauto product is top notch but dollars is dollars.

You also get two sets of machined brass bushings and a new rubber boot. I'm not sure that the ball joints themselves are the same -- After I get them I will take some detailed mesurements and we can compare to the 2 for $50 units you are talking about. Are the brass parts included with the ball joints of which you speak? Either way it is cheaper than the other alternatives!

would it be cheaper to go to the junkyard and get steel ones and then spend 50bucks on new balljoints? will they even fit that car?
An idea...

The steel arms and the aluminum ones are in theory interchangable (you can put the aluminum ones on the early cars anyways)

AFJuvat

I'm not sure what the junkyard is going to charge for a couple of steel arms -- even if it's $50/ea. That's almost the same amount of money and I would prefer to keep mine stock (It's just me -- I have issues!) -- They's be good for another 80K or so -- I don't think that is too much to ask.

I DO think Gunter should have made the ball joints replacable -- whats that about?

Kenny,
By now, you probably have worked some on that ball joint replacement. How difficult was it? How's the outcome? Also, did you replace the bushings while the arm was free...if so. where'd you get the bushings?
I've seen ads for $150 & $200 for control arm swap outs. Some guarantee, some include bushings...hard to know who offers the most value and reliability.

I just ordered them a couple of days ago -- they haven't arrived, when they do I'll post. I didn't find anyone that did the bushings -- at least not without extra charges (like Zimm's) the other place that Paragon and other refer people to, Dynamic European Technologies, Inc. (DET), doesn't replace the bushings in their standard rebuild ($150/arm) -- I don't see how anybody could for the $150-200 that you are suggesting -- the bushings themselves from Zimm's, which seem to have a very low price, are $34 ea or $68/side (DET looked up the bushings and they were a bit over $60/ea.). These guys have to make a buck too, so by the time they do the bushings too... Anyway, the idea is to save a little money and get a little experience. The couple of guys that posted over at Rennlist said that it was pretty easy -- we'll see.

I didn't plan on replacing the bushings necessarily, Zimm's is just down the road, and though I usually mail-order because of price and convenience, I figured if I need them, I'll just get in the[spare] car and go pick them up. Supposidly, if they haven't been leeked on they are OK. My car has only 82K on it and though rubber can be effected by a 'time thing' they may be fine.

You and justin, are lucky arses to have Zim's right down the road. Pelican parts is just a little ways away, but I have yet to be invited down for tea OR crumpets, and have asked several times if the have a "Will Call" window and never a reply:( :o http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/hiding.gif