944S/951 Wheels/Brakes

[tifosiman]

Originally posted by 951carter
The rear of these cars do not have springs, they have Torsion bars intead. The T-bars are a PITA to replace or reindex. Which means if you want to put on stiffer front springs(which you will) you have to put on stiffer T-bars in the back. The whole rear suspension has to be dropped to change/reindex the bars.
However, you can just pop on a set of rear coilovers to stiffen the back to match the front, this involves 2 bolts per side =)
You can leave the T-bars in the back and use helper springs, or you can remove the T-bars and run just the rear coilovers.

Physically the coilovers are like the regular shock but they have threaded bodies and springs, the threaded bodies and perches make them heigth adjustable.


T-bar removal and adjustment:
http://www.tech-session.com/Paragon/Tech/944_tbar_removal.htm


Rear coilovers:
http://www.*****************.com/

I'll give you the fronts for $300 and the rear for $400.......you can come get 'em today if you want =)

To do it right with the rear coil overs you really still need to re-index the torsion bar at the very least, or your ride height will be a bit "high". And, if you are going to drive the car on the street, don't remove the torsion bars and use the coil overs only: the mounting points for the rear struts were not designed to be full-load bearing and you will have structural issues if you stress that area too much. The track is smooth enought to get away with it, unfortunately public roads aren't.

Tifo

[951carter]

If you dont put any preload on them you don't have to reindex.

I know many who have been using them on the street w/out problems w/out T-bars. I wouldn't go rootin' with 'em though.

I have the factory turbo cup setup for my '86, F&R coilovers w/410 lb springs.

[Sternn]

Ok, I got tired of sounding like an idot so I went down to the shop where my guy works on my baby and had him show me everything about brakes/suspension while he was replacing all th
e stuff we have been discussing on a 911 he had in there. So, now I know exactly what everything is, where it goes, and how it works.

Oh, and damn, I do want some coilover shocks now, and a lighter t-bar. One question, are those front koni struts coilover as well?

AND if you use coilover struts or shocks, do you still need the springs? And if you just put coilover shocks in and not coilover struts, would having springs in the front and not the back effect the ride (even though its adjustable I'm wondering if you would be forced to 'ride high' since the springs would not be adjustable).

Hey, I am getting the hang of this suspension stuff

Just got my brembo 4 fronts today. I cleaned and degreased them so they are ready to paint. Also filed the PORSCHE logo so it is all nice and shiny and really stands out on the brakes. Learned that today too - they blasted and powdered my valve cover (guards red), intake manifold (black) and distributor (guards red). Then, they showed me how to really make it look tight by grinding the porsche logo on the valve cover and making it totally silver again (wait until I get it done and get the pix online).

They are almost finished installing the new valves too. The head should be done and back from the machine shop by this weekend (I hope). Slowly but surely it's coming together...

[951carter]

Hmmmmmm....... you need springs in the front no matter what.

Some are heigth adjustable(commonly refered to as coilovers) and some are not.

The non-heigth adjustable ones have a fixed perch and the H adjustable ones have a perch that screws up and down. The struts with a fixed perch can be fitted with a kit to make them heigth adjustable. I can supply you with anything you want =)
Here is a link to the front coilover kit, http://www.*****************.com/
I have one just like that i can hook you up with. The Koni's that i have are no longer in production, all you can buy is inserts for your regular struts, which is a little of a hack job IMO.

In the rear, if you fit coilovers, they take the place of the regular shock and torsion bar. The torsion bars can be left in if desired.

It is all a bit confusing, but, you will catch on.


p.s. Pete is having a club meeting at 2pm on saturday in the willow lawn parking lot if you are interested in coming.

[powerzen]

Originally posted by Pilot_951S
At the rear the 951 calipers will bolt right up. You will also need the spacer washers for these calipers and 951 brake rotors.

pilot, i am doing this conversion as well. can you tell me more about the caliper spacer? what size are they? does someone sell them (i'm on a tight schedule) or do i need to have some made?

how's this for a bastardized conversion...
951 calipers all the way around with Carrera rotors and 944 hubs on the front and 944S trailing arms...on a bug!

i have a '86 951 too though so don't think i am all that bad.

[Pilot_951S]

They are basically two very thick washers per side. I don't know where to get them except from a salvage car or the Porsche dealer but they can't be that expensive. Obviously they are critical in that without them the caliper will not be centered over the brake disc but you can probably use something else. They aren't anything fancier than thick shims. In fact I can get the part number for them tomorrow morning.

[powerzen]

that would be great. and dimensions if you don't mind. i will have some made locally if needed. so these were OEM spacers though? what application (so i know what to ask for) if the 944S usually came with N/A brakes and i am assuming didn't need these?

[Pilot_951S]

They are found on all 944 Turbo, 944 S2, and 968. The aluminum trailing arms for all years are the same (different hub assemblies for early offset cars) and Porsche's answer was very simple, they took an existing caliper design and made a shim to get it to fit on the existing arm.

[ae1969]

They are about a 1/4 inch thick...... and without them the caliper binds with the rotor.....

[Pilot_951S]

999 025 131 02 $6.50 each. An unbeleivable rip off but it is the fastest solution. Looks like a dealer only part, but depending on what your time is worth I might search around.

[tifosiman]

Originally posted by powerzen
that would be great. and dimensions if you don't mind. i will have some made locally if needed. so these were OEM spacers though? what application (so i know what to ask for) if the 944S usually came with N/A brakes and i am assuming didn't need these?

I found the exact spacers I needed for this application at Lowe's. Since I am at work, I cannot check the size/spec of them. I think I have 4-6 of these extra in my parts bin as they came in a big pack.

email me offlist and let's discuss.

jeremy.mudd@huffy.com

[powerzen]

thanks guys!!!!! now if i can straighten out a bad deal of getting 3 out of 4 CVs that are bad, get the rotors and these spacers, and convert the e-brake cable end to match 944 i'll be good to go...on brakes.

[helowrench]

powerzen, I came across a German website a few months back that had all sorts of stuff for Pcar to type1 VW brake swaps. the thing that really piqued my attention was the 944 brake master cyl that had a proportioning valve correctly biased already for the swaps. BTW they had kits to put any brakes onto a type1 all the way up to GT2 brakes ........ on a bug........ or my ghia...... I will try to find that site again
Rob

[powerzen]

tons of info on germanlook.com where i lurk mostly, but everyone has slightly different ways of doing it. a kit just seemed too easy too.

i am nearly done. the thing that threw me was having to switch from early arms (86 951) to late (87+) because i need the extra track width. forced me to relearn some things and swap some parts.

once i get through the rush to complete i will be going back to do some more project right ups on my car. you can see some basic info at www.volksport.net in the members area. i'm in there as zen.

once i can get through the bug it is on to the 951. haven't decided on what to do yet though. its a daily driver so i can't go too nuts.

[powerzen]

thanks for the info guys. got some '87 951 rotors today and used 3mm spacers on each bolt and worked like a charm.