Is this a bad idea?

[roboflapper]

I saw a listing for a 1986 porsche 944.
Its in good condition, (or so it looks) the seller claims it's been garaged all its life, and it has 115k miles on it. He's Selling it for $1,700.

The only problem he has listed, is that the water pump needs replaced. Now I haven't talked to him yet, so I don't know if there are any other problems.

But let's say that the only problem is the water pumped, would that be a good deal?

Or would I end up putting way to much money into it to get it running?
I also read somewhere that if you replace the water pump on this car, you have to replace the timing belt, is this factual?

I don't know to much about the car so any info would be great, thanks.

[sausagehacker]

To be honest, you're best off getting a PPI done by a shop familiar with these cars before purchasing, unless you're familiar with them already. But for $1700....can't really go wrong, even paying someone else to do the water pump (and belts... Correct you need to remove them, as the pump is driven by the timing belt). If you're mechanically inclined it isn't that hard to DIY, most 944 guys turn our own wrenches.

[nightheart]

The timing belt comes off to remove the water pump, so theres no reason not to put a new one on. 400-500 dollars for the parts for a waterpump and timing belt kit, if you do the labor yourself. If the body is straight and rust free, I'd think its a good price. Its 30 years old though, so other problems are going to crop up, just be ready for them.

[mytrplseven]

First look under the car for oil leaks around the engine area. It may be a bit tough with the belly pan on but try. Next, there's no reason to do just a water pump if you have the front open, do the belts, check the rollers for noise when you spin them and check for oil leaks. You may need to do the front of engine seals "while you're in there". This is a useful phrase with these cars. If you're doing your own wrenching, it'll only cost you for parts. If you have the shop (avoid the dealer shops, too expensive) do the work, find one who knows 944's. You should expect to spend around $2000 to do a thorough front end job (water pump and belts. Seals are that much again). The Belts should be replaced about every 4 to 5 years or 35k miles. The water pump should be done every other set of belts. Also after new belts have been installed, have them re-tensioned after 1500 miles. Bottom line, a seemingly good deal on one of these great cars isn't always a good deal. If you really want one, find one with a maintenance history and that has been taken care of. Spend the additional 2 to 3 thousand and get it right from the start. Good luck.

[roboflapper]

I don't know anything about cars, I'd like to learn.

I'm not looking to spend a lot a money in to getting a car ready to ride, so would you guys say this is a good learning car, or should I invest in something else?

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[v2rocket_aka944]

belt/roller kit and waterpump will run about $350 in parts and about 6-8 hours of time if you know what you are doing.

if this is your first time under a 944...give it a full weekend.

where are you located?

[ckelly78z]

Originally Posted by roboflapper

I don't know anything about cars, I'd like to learn.

I'm not looking to spend a lot a money in to getting a car ready to ride, so would you guys say this is a good learning car, or should I invest in something else?

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The Porsche 944 can be a tricky car to diagnose starting and running problems on. If you are replacing a waterpump, you NEED to replace the timing belt also, because it is recommended every 5 years, or 30,000 miles, whichever comes first. I would replace all fluids , belts, hoses, filters, plugs, and wires while it is down to add a piece of mind, and make it more reliable.

Other things to look (and listen) for is a bad vibration at idle, is probably bad/failed motor mounts. You also want to look around under, and on the sides of the motor for oil leaks which could need new seals.

You will end up learning alot on this car, and hopefully not running into major expenses.

[roboflapper]

Originally Posted by v2rocket_aka944

belt/roller kit and waterpump will run about $350 in parts and about 6-8 hours of time if you know what you are doing.

if this is your first time under a 944...give it a full weekend.

where are you located?

I'm in Kansas city.

[Bukowski]

my 2 cents:

humidity - it matters. when you look at the wires, connections... especially grounds - the corrosion you see is one thing, but - corrosion can creep under wires. this can lead to mass confusion.... not to mention rust on everything that can rust. rust means things break when you take them off - I'll stop now.

[Arizona_928]

If it's just the water pump and is as clean as it sounds. Yeah I would get it. Can do a WP/TB in a morning.
Nothing as expensive as a cheap Porsche.

[mytrplseven]

Robo, if you don't know much about cars, as you say, I would suggest you start with a 944 that has all the maintenance up to date so you'll have time to get used to the car. Then, when something starts to indicate a problem, you'll be able to recognize the change. Buying a car that starts out needing to be repaired before you can enjoy it, can really sour you on the experience.

To prepare for the possibility of something that might put you at the roadside, I suggest up front that you buy two spare DME/fuel pump relays (around $25 each) from Pelican Parts and keep them in the glove box. Then, if your car either won't start or simply stops somewhere, you begin with swapping out the DME relay first (simple) and then go on from there. Second, start following the forum discussions here. You'd be surprised how educated and informed you'll become over time. Good luck, and don't be embarrassed by asking questions of this forum, no matter how dumb they may sound. It's part of the process and we're always happy to help. Also start looking around for a local shop (not the dealership, unless you got lots of money) that works on 944's and develop a relationship with them. It'll pay off down the road.

[dgcantrell]

If the car is in good shape and if it can be fired up to make sure it runs, I'd buy it in heartbeat. If it's been sitting for a long time, I'd flush the gas though. If and when I get another 944 (I got an 88S model last year for $700), the first thing on the list to do is the timing belts and water pump. I don't care if the PO says he did them yesterday, if I didn't see, it didn't get done. At least this way I KNOW for sure. Having done several belt changes on my '87 (N/A 8 valve), the job isn't difficult at all if you know what you're doing.

Along with the belt changes would be a complete fluid flush of the brake and clutch system.

Also, what triple7 said above applies. Good advice. I've been working on cars for over 30 years. I've been working on my 944 (and 928) for 24 years. In fact, I got my first 944 this week in 1992.

[gtroth]

As usual in stories like this, it all comes down to the clutch.
If it needs a clutch, budget $2500 for it.

[Fast Freddy 944]

It sounds like a good idea, but be cautious, sometimes people will sell you their own troubles or problems.

[Fast Freddy 944]

Good luck!

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by gtroth

If it needs a clutch, budget $2500 for it.

hmmm I replaced my last one for 1 grand that was a 951 with kevlar disk, and Al flywheel.

[dgcantrell]

Mine only cost me the parts. My labor was free.. LOL

[911tracker85]

Robo, if you don't know much about cars, as you say, I would suggest you start with a 944 that has all the maintenance up to date so you'll have time to get used to the car.

I would tend to agree. if you get a good one, find you enjoy it enough for the long haul, hopefully you'll begin your "wrenching" experience with general maintenance before you have to tackle something major such as a clutch or full TB/WP/etc.

and finding one that is in good, overall cosmetic shape helps, as major cosmetic work on these cars can quickly put you upside down $$$ wise.

starting with a non-running car needing major work is not for the faint of heart and can totally demoralize a noob.

and if you read my or mytrplseven's build posts you will see how hard and frustrating it can be.

but for many on these forums, wrenching is a big part of the fun (?)

my first 944 was an 87S, paid $2,000. that was after I had been wrenching on my aircooled 911 and had done extensive refresh/rebuilds on my 84 928S.

took me a couple months and over $3k in parts to bring the 944S back to life and ready for the road.

now after my Bro driving for a few years, just finishing a major refresh. TB/WP, rollers, seals, oil cooler reseal, coolant hoses, etc etc. would have to look at the receipts to remember. almost $1k in parts but when I get in somewhere on these older cars I do EVERYTHING. unless you want to break down or have to fix something every other month (or week).

and in full disclosure I am totally OCD when it comes to wrenching on my cars.

here is a peek at the TB/WP etc. project.






my 86 944 turbo was a project with most parts in boxes. paid $3500 and spend almost a year and another $8k or more in parts. again, during the build did everything to it. now waiting on the new suspension.





but the rewards of one of these cars refreshed and sorted on the road or track is incredible.