High rise aero wing, interested?

[flash968]

we actually installed flutes to exit out of wider flatter holes. round holes tend to produce turbulence, and i'm not sure how that would work. i wish i had some pictures, but that was 25 years ago.

check your local rules though before doing it. some classes won't let you do that kind of thing.

[The Glademister]

Copy that! Thanks

[v2rocket_aka944]

I'm with Flash on this one...you guys give him a lot of **** for whatever reason, but he really knows these things backwards and forwards. Plus, he's really a nice guy in person...

Now, often I hate to say this next sentence, but..."If it worked that well, don't you think Porsche would have done it?"...they had an essentially unlimited budget for car development for the initial 944 LeMans prototype car in 1981...you know what they did for aero? big fenders and deleted pop-up lights.



And then with further development, this car "944 GTR" got essentially a really big spoiler, not a wing.



Not saying you can't get a wing to work well, but you need to be using the car in a specific way to make it worthwhile.

[FrenchToast]

Originally Posted by v2rocket_aka944

If it worked that well, don't you think Porsche would have done it?

I've often wondered how the 968 wing compares to the normal spoilers. Both the street version and TRS versions..

And the Paul Ricard Circuit test car. Because this only was run once on a factory car (and installed on one customer car), I imagine it didn't do what they had hoped?



So what is best? They made several spoilers and several wings. I really don't know.

Happy Holidays!

[flash968]

the 968 rs turbo wing was likely tested to prove its effectiveness. there is an aftermarket copy of the rs turbo wing that seems to work well, though i have no empirical data on it.

[v2rocket_aka944]

The 944 spoiler was a drag-reduction device first, and a rear-end-lift-reducer.
If you can find a photo of an original 924 in a wind tunnel (doing the "smoke test") compared to a 944 with the little rubber tail you'll see quite a difference.

968 body was changed sufficiently enough (especially at the back end) that perhaps the new "wing" was justified for reasons other than purely looks...

[Bradical]

Originally Posted by v2rocket_aka944

I'm with Flash on this one...you guys give him a lot of **** for whatever reason, but he really knows these things backwards and forwards. Plus, he's really a nice guy in person...

Eh, the OP was trying to gauge general interest in a wing, I was just trying to contribute to the discussion with my own personal experience that yes- in fact there are/will be interest in it- look at these 944Cup cars, etc.

Flash's irrefutable K&E and "yes people will be interested" are not mutually exclusive is all I am trying to say-

I certainly haven't been on this forum as long as you guys, but one thing I have learned so far is that any thread that has more than 3 replies from Flash on it is worth reading. Wether because it's full of information, or because he's started some sort of internet war and the comments are hilarious. I mean, remember when that guy wanted to make that master link?

[olin83]

Originally Posted by Bradical

Eh, the OP was trying to gauge general interest in a wing, I was just trying to contribute to the discussion with my own personal experience that yes- in fact there are/will be interest in it- look at these 944Cup cars, etc.

Flash's irrefutable K&E and "yes people will be interested" are not mutually exclusive is all I am trying to say-

I certainly haven't been on this forum as long as you guys, but one thing I have learned so far is that any thread that has more than 3 replies from Flash on it is worth reading. Wether because it's full of information, or because he's started some sort of internet war and the comments are hilarious. I mean, remember when that guy wanted to make that master link?

Thank you for actually understanding the point.

I didn't ask for a thirty year history of the wing on a 944 let alone care about Flash or anyone else's resume. If we're having a mine is bigger than yours contest I'm an Electro-Mechanical engineer from Penn State who has 3 patents in the auto industry and have worked as a design engineer and group manager for over 15 years. I'm not some 16 year old who bought the 944 because it was a $5000 Porsche. I'm in the process of having a 3.2l 16v built that will be about 280whp for a purpose built car.

There are applications where a wing will help especially when paired with matched front and underside aero. I think the build I'm doing is one of them if not then I'll take the wing off or rework it.

As far as calculations go fluid dynamics hand calcs are directional at best misleading at worst. Unless you have test data, FEA, or wind tunnel for any aero package you really have nothing but speculation.

In the end I'm going to design and produce 5-10 wings and will post info when they're done and if someone wants one great. They will be carbon wings with aluminum chassis mounts that are professionally designed and produced. Like it, awesome. If you don't just flame it or ignore it I really don't care. I was just trying to let other people in on something if they want it. I'm not going to comment anymore on this subject. When I have the project done, probably March or April I will post and see if anyone cares.

[flash968]

i have done some of this testing on the 944 and the 968, and i can tell you that it will do nothing particularly positive below about 130mph, and even then, its benefits are questionable. we messed with this very thing on a salt flats car. in the end, the car was faster without the wing.

the 944 and 968 do not benefit much from rear downforce, and in fact, too much creates an even bigger problem. the 968 turbo rs wing comes into play at about 140, and helps it get to 175 without lifting off. neither the 944 nor the 968 have issues with rear lift below about 140. the 951 is slightly better at streaming, due to the rear diffuser. all 3 models would benefit from that kind of device, as it is the rear bumper cover that is the issue at the rear, not the air over the top of the car

most of the work needed is under the car, particularly in the front. porsche did a decent job with its belly pans, but there is room for improvement to be sure. that is a place where you may find marketable parts to be made, assuming the rules let them in. that is exactly why i designed and chose to manufacture the front splitter. i designed a set of belly pans, but belly pans are prohibited in many classes, as are wings. this limited marketability. consequently i scrapped the project. rules legality would be a critical consideration in marketability of any such product.

the question though is "why bother creating something that already exists, and is proven?"

go right ahead and build whatever you want. as somebody who has been at this for over 30 years, as a mechanical design engineer, owner of a race car design shop, and the owner of the largest performance parts manufacturer for the 968, and as somebody who has spent countless hours developing things for these cars, i applaud somebody else stepping up and bringing in innovation, and developing new parts. however, i would be remiss if i did not point out that some things are just not helpful, and likely a waste of money.

i would solve the problem, and cure the issues under the car. you will almost certainly find you do not need a wing, and that a wing is the wrong approach, and you will save yourself a lot of time and money along the way. but, what do i know? i've only done way over a half million dollars of sales of performance parts for these cars.

sigh - it's stuff like this though that makes me glad i am closing up shop. it would just be so much nicer if, when somebody asks if there might be interest in something, that they actually took a minute to listen to some sage advice, and then replied "thanks for that. you may be saving me a huge headache. i'll take another look before diving in"

[A_P_B]

The wing may slow you down, or do nothing at all. But it sure looks cool, keep it up, you never know what you can do, tell you do it...

[flash968]

lol - yeah - been there done that with a number of products. not everything worked out. regardless, it was fun trying.