took the plunge

[Danglerb]

BAR http://www.autorepair.ca.gov

But they just enforce what CARB tells them, http://www.arb.ca.gov/

My first 928 was an 81 AT, not fast 0-60, but 50-90 went pretty fast. Best trip car I ever owned.

But was little boring to drive around town.

[anakilat]

So what do I care if an Altima can beat me in a quarter mile drag, that's not what a 928 is for. That same Altima will be a spec in my mirror at one mile and heaven forbid there's a turn involved. Besides, what kind of pickup line is "hey babe, wanna ride in my Altima..." LoL

But seriously, it's never worth what we spend on them. I would evaluate the engine and drivetrain stuff first. If it's really bad, buy another one and use this for a parts car. It's much easier to put up with a good running but crummy looking car.

[m21sniper]

Actually, no- an Altima SE will probably outrun your MY 928 top end too. And it will get there MUCH faster. As in it will beat an 82 US 3 speed 928 by about 15+ car lengths in the quarter mile, and top out at about 145mph.

I suspect by the end of that mile you mentioned it is YOU who would be the fly speck in the Altima's rear view mirror, not the other way around.

An Altima SE has a buttload more power and gearing than your 82 US 3spd A/T has. A 2006 is 260hp- fully 40 more than your 928, and has more gears. (A new SE is even more powerful, and has even more gears, and is a sub 14 second quarter mile performer)

Against any kind of modern sports car, it would be even more embarassing. A lowly Dodge Neon SRT turbo would beat an 82 US 928 by well in excess of 20 car lengths in the quarter. Frankly, i think my family car 1997 Saab SE Turbo daily driver would smoke an 82 US A/T 928 (including top end).

You seem to have no idea just how thoroughly unimpressive your model year 928's performance is by today's standards, and just how much $$$$$$$$$$$$ you'll have to sink into that car to make it worth even owning. I'm trying to tell you, you're not listening though.

Why would you care if you can "out drag" an Altima? Well....because in regular city driving acceleration is an important part of merging, getting first out of the light to change lanes for a turn coming up, accelerating to merge onto a busy highway, etc. A 3 speed A/T US spec 1982 928(219hp) is just totally underpowered by today's standards. Any typical Jap sedan will easily outperform it, even lower end stuff.

You've already said it doesn't run. If you waste the money to get it running you'll see what i mean. I am not exxagerating, a 82 US A/T 928 is a pig.

Get a 4 speed Euro A/T(or any 5 speed Euro 80+) or an 85+ US though, and it's a whole different beast. These FAR MORE DESIRABLE AND SATISFYING cars can be had for very little money. There is an S4 for sale on this forum right now for a paltry $3000.00 that for a couple grand of DIY would really be worth having.

Bone stock the S4 is, IIRC, 316hp, sub 14 second quarter mile, and 170+ mph top end.

It is LIGHT YEARS more capable than the model year you just bought, and you would actually save a mountain of cash in the long run by buying one in decent shape to begin with. These cars HATE to sit, and you think yours has sat for 10 years or more. And you plan to do a "total rebuild?"

News flash, even doing the work yourself a "total rebuild" of a 928 would cost an easy $30,000.00 or more. At least get a model worth spending money on.

Sell the thing now before you piss away thousands and thousands of dollars on a dog.

1987 S4 for $3000.00 link:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=488337

[rhjames]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

At least get a model worth spending money on.

I really do like your theory here, but the truth is....none of the 928's are worth restoring, including yours. They are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them.

As for your argument about the Corvette "point" that I made--do some objective research. You will find that you are not quite on the mark with your argument.

I'll pick the fastest 928, the 92-95 GTS w/5 speed. It runs the quarter in 13.7 seconds (ref: 928 GT website).

The 92 Corvettes ran the quarter in 13.9.
The 93 Corvettes ran the quarter in 13.6.
The 94 Corvettes ran the quarter in 13.1.
The 95 Corvettes ran the quarter in 13.1.

Corvette ref: ExoticCarsSite.com

So, using this data, the 928 was only faster than the Corvette by 2 tenths in one year of the above example. One should also remember that the 928 was significantly more expensive and had a lesser build quality than the Corvette. I've owned a '93 ZR-1 (bought it new), and I can tell you the build quality is like night and day compared to any GTS I have actually seen.

OR----If you use ExoticCarsSite.com's figures exclusively, you will find that most 928's were in the 14 to 15 second range, the exception being the '87 S4. Even the great GTS didn't fair well at 14.5.

The Corvette times in this discussion are no small potatoes----the '93 model year comparison puts the Corvette ahead of the GTS by nearly a full second.

Sometimes we do things because we enjoy doing it, not because of anything you have put forth here.


For all you/we know, he may have ZERO dollars in the purchase of the car.....give the guy a little slack, please. He wasn't asking for a tongue lashing---he was asking for advice on which way to proceed with a purchase (that he might just be damn proud of!).

--Russ

[tgsstewart]

thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions (well almost everyone). i bought this car because i like the way it looks, rides and drives (i drove 3 other 82's before i bought this one). i wanted a project, something to keep me busy and out of trouble and i feel this car is "right" for me, it's more of a pride of ownership and accomplishment thing. i dont plan on racing anyone, i plan on driving this car and engoying it. i'm in Ohio close to Akron in a town called Stow. i have a few photos of the car, removed the carpet because it was wet and stunk, no rust on the floors. paid $1200 for it and another $150 to have it moved by flatbed to my place. will keep those who care updated.

[928SROCK]

Hey tgsstewart it dosnt look all that bad for what u paid for it. Sit back and enjoy the ride

[Niles]

I like the exterior color and the interior colors. I doubt any of our cars are worth what we have paid into them. It's good to see an interesting car get rescued. I look forward to reading about your progress and seeing the photos along the way.

[MPDano]

Good job! Looks complete.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by MPDano

Good job! Looks complete.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by rhjames

I really do like your theory here, but the truth is....none of the 928's are worth restoring, including yours. They are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them.

As for your argument about the Corvette "point" that I made--do some objective research. You will find that you are not quite on the mark with your argument.

I'll pick the fastest 928, the 92-95 GTS w/5 speed. It runs the quarter in 13.7 seconds (ref: 928 GT website).

The 92 Corvettes ran the quarter in 13.9.
The 93 Corvettes ran the quarter in 13.6.
The 94 Corvettes ran the quarter in 13.1.
The 95 Corvettes ran the quarter in 13.1.

Corvette ref: ExoticCarsSite.com

So, using this data, the 928 was only faster than the Corvette by 2 tenths in one year of the above example. One should also remember that the 928 was significantly more expensive and had a lesser build quality than the Corvette. I've owned a '93 ZR-1 (bought it new), and I can tell you the build quality is like night and day compared to any GTS I have actually seen.

OR----If you use ExoticCarsSite.com's figures exclusively, you will find that most 928's were in the 14 to 15 second range, the exception being the '87 S4. Even the great GTS didn't fair well at 14.5.

The Corvette times in this discussion are no small potatoes----the '93 model year comparison puts the Corvette ahead of the GTS by nearly a full second.

Sometimes we do things because we enjoy doing it, not because of anything you have put forth here.


For all you/we know, he may have ZERO dollars in the purchase of the car.....give the guy a little slack, please. He wasn't asking for a tongue lashing---he was asking for advice on which way to proceed with a purchase (that he might just be damn proud of!).

--Russ

You didn't list the first 11 years the 928 was in production, only the last few models when the Vette was finally getting it's act together. A bone stock 85+ US 928 will run a 14 flat, i've seen it with my own eyes. S4's are sub 14 second cars, seen that with my own eyes too. I've seen GT's listed as 13.4 cars, never seen one run in person.
Compare the 80s Vettes to the 80s Sharks, and the 928s dominance is quite pronounced. Especially for the Euro models.

As far as my 928, i got it for $3.4k, and have not spent much on it in about 5 years because it was nice when i bought it. After 5+ years of ownership i'm into it for maybe $7-8k tops.

And mine has ran a 13.67 quarter mile. It's not stock, i bought it that way- some other guy spent probably $10,000 making it this fast. I'm the second owner, and have been enjoying the fruits of close to $100,000.00 of that other guys labor (combined, over the life of the vehicle while he owned it, including original purchase price) for years now.

To make an 83 US A/T like mine run as fast as mine has would take at least $5k for a supercharger kit, or about $8-10k for a stroker motor.

OR YOU COULD JUST BUY ONE ALREADY DONE FOR PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR!!!

It's not my money, let the guy piss his away, but the simple fact is that's EXACTLY what he's doing when he could buy a nice daily driver condition 85+ US (288hp, 160mph, 14 second ET) for about $5k.

And even if he did get the 82 for nothing, he still didn't get a deal- because he will spend far, far, far more money getting that into "five thousand dollar shape" than if he'd just bought a $5,000.00 928 to begin with. Everyone here knows this is the 100% truth.

You said you drove other 82's? Why didn't you try and drive some of the later models with some horsepower? They are not much more money at all. For what it will cost to fix the 82 Wiessach i strongly suspect you could just go out right now and buy a nice 928S4 5 speed (316hp, 170mph, sub 14 second ET). This compared to his car, which will barely even scratch 140mph with the wind and it's back, and would be lucky to crack a pathetic 16 flat ET in the quarter mile.

This has been hashed over time and time at this board, rennlist, and 928S4VR so many times it can make a guy's head spin. But yet, here we are again, some new 928 rookie about to make the same dumbass mistakes, and some of you encouraging him.

The honest truth is this:

Originally Posted by pcar928fan

There are MANY 80-84 Euro S 4.7L 300+HP cars in the US... 5spds AND autos. I could be wrong on this one (Roger at 928sRus could tell us for sure) but my impression was that the Weissach cars were only for the US markets and that the Jubilee cars were the special cars for the ROW market... Thus a Jubilee car will be a gray market car if it is in the US the Weissach cars will be full US spec 4.5L 219HP cars...

I hope they GAVE you that car because it is really worth about $0 not running and with a RUINED interior. It was in fact the interior that was the ONLY thing (other than the luggage) that made a Weissach car special and as noted to fix that and make it RIGHT would probably be $10k on the interior ALONE... Paint to do it RIGHT (though you are already missing the rear hatch glass...BONUS there) would be another $6k without even blinking... Then you still don't have a running car...

That car running, driving and in good presentable condition but FAR from show quality is a $9k car AT MOST and probably A LOT LESS. With the luggage in good condition and if the car itself was fully functional and close to excellent condition might be a $12k car to the right person who is looking for that specific thing.

This is a project for someone who can do all the paint, interior and mechanical work themselves and LOVES 928's and has nothing better to do.

You are AT LEAST $25k away from having a $10k car...

[american-kiwi]

Hey m21sniper
I think your on the wrong forums!!...you need to sign up with the Nissan Altima forums group
(just messing with ya )

tgsstewart

At the end of the day...doesnt matter what we all say about this car...your the owner of it, you sit in it, and your happy!!.....thats all that matters.

[m21sniper]

The Altima SE was just a random example.

[pcar928fan]

Pics of the car are MUCH better than I expected! That interior while rough is hardly RUINED... So, you might get away with rehab on some of the parts and a redo on others. The paint does not look bad in the pics...might shine up and be presentable for awhile anyway...

Maybe you get lucky on the not running status and get it on the road for not to much money. Having spent $1200 on the car you have a bit of room to play. Ultimately it would be a VERY BAD BUY to make it in to a concours car w/o you doing all the work and taking your time on it.

Making it a NICE DD...well, you maybe be only $7k away from a $5k DD...

Here are some numbers from the Tech Spec books from Porsche on the US spec 4.5L Auto cars:

Max speed 140mph
0-62 mph 7.7 sec
1/4 mile 16.0

I sure hope Russ was kidding about the Vette build quality vs. the 928..."more expensive and had lesser build quality than a Vette." You have GOT TO BE KIDDING ME! Most Vettes won't even last as long let alone cover the miles of a 928...you will find few cars with better build quality than a 928 and certainly NO Vette has better build quality. Run one for about 10k miles and the thing will squeak and rattle like a tin can filled with pebbles. Sure it will still be fast, but YUCK! Not to mention the quality of the interior parts (at least from new...that German stuff does not seem to last in the hot sun of the SW, but when new it certainly looks better than even the newest C6 Vette today)...

[928forlife]

Where is the luv?

Sniper has a point about the performance of the pre 85 US cars.

But at least all years are great looking and if brought up/ maintained to good condition are still some of the best pieces of metal on the road.

Build quality? My door closes like a bank vault.

I have driven some of the best cars money can buy and I have driven WITH most others.

All I can say is I feel sorry that some of you have not had the same experience. My 85 euro with optional A28.06 auto and LSD will shread tires if i want and takes off like you would not believe. I have easily beaten cars with published 0-60 of 5.4. It will cruise at autobahn speeds like its not even working. The handling is beyond belief, the interior second to none in comfort and luxury, and the sound is out of this world.

Put simply the most enjoyable ride under a couple hundred grand.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by 928forlife

Where is the luv?

It has gone out the window of his Nissan Altima..

I think everyone was thinking a lot worse then the pics. the car looks like it only needs that bottom carpet...


btw did it come with the luggage?

[rhjames]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

You didn't list the first 11 years the 928 was in production,

(True...it was only an example, not a comparison of the entire 928/Corvette production run.


To make an 83 US A/T like mine run as fast as mine has would take at least $5k for a supercharger kit, or about $8-10k for a stroker motor.


(Really......?


OR YOU COULD JUST BUY ONE ALREADY DONE FOR PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR!!!


(maybe.....

It's not my money,


(Exactly.....

And even if he did get the 82 for nothing, he still didn't get a deal- because he will spend far, far, far more money getting that into "five thousand dollar shape" than if he'd just bought a $5,000.00 928 to begin with. Everyone here knows this is the 100% truth.


(Ok, so what....? I haven't seen very many examples in the 928 world where you didn't put many more dollars into it, well over and above what they would re-sell for----[he didn't buy it to re-sell and make a buck off of it---see his post above!]

You said you drove other 82's? Why didn't you try and drive some of the later models with some horsepower? They are not much more money at all. For what it will cost to fix the 82 Wiessach i strongly suspect you could just go out right now and buy a nice 928S4 5 speed (316hp, 170mph, sub 14 second ET). This compared to his car, which will barely even scratch 140mph with the wind and it's back, and would be lucky to crack a pathetic 16 flat ET in the quarter mile.

(maybe he did. Yes, there are other 928s in better/faster condition for the same money he will put into the Weissach, but they are not Weisssach's are they...? As he says in his post, he isn't interested in going fast......


This has been hashed over time and time at this board, rennlist, and 928S4VR so many times it can make a guy's head spin. But yet, here we are again, some new 928 rookie about to make the same dumbass mistakes, and some of you encouraging him.


(So what would you have the 928 community do? Eliminate all 928s older than the S4, just to keep up with your opinion of what's a deal and what's not? Mmmm........ Care to send yours to the crusher tomorrow to prove your point? [Probably not.....]

Sniper, it's an interesting debate, but it's just your opinion. The guy has a passion for owning, restoring, and enjoying the car as it is......just the same as you enjoy yours as it is.


Is he a dumba** for getting involved with it---hardly.

Your mindset would put many, many cars to the crusher without any thought to it's history significance. And that, in my humble opinion, is sad.

Take care--

--Russ

[rhjames]

Originally Posted by pcar928fan

I sure hope Russ was kidding about the Vette build quality vs. the 928...

James, I'm not being totally anal at all with this discussion per se, just find it interesting that some folks can't get past a few issues.....

I've driven and owned my share of both. There's good and bad in all of them. As I plainly stated, I am not a big Corvette fan, but the Vette didn't suffer the electrical bugs these 928s do, and you don't have carpet in a Vette that you just "throw on the floor" like the 928. Rebuild a Vette engine, parts are everywhere and very inexpensive. Try that with a 928---you know what I'm talking about. The last time I saw a price on a set of stock 928 pistons/rings (any year or choice), they were $2500 and up. You can buy SBC sets for less than $200 on eBay.

Want HP? We've got less than $10G's in our 540 BBC that dyno'ed 1000hp and has run two full seasons without a teardown or issues. Try that with any combination of stroker/blower/turbo 928..... Kuhn's turbo setup is $11.5K plus the short block plus labor--let's just say $25K. Mr. Brown's stroker is rumored to be upwards of $25K. Louie Ott, Mike Simard, the Drama Queen have how much in their ITB strokers??? $30K and up? Murf's blower and short block to match--$20K+. Carl Fausett's stroker plus blower is $30K+. Todd's stroker is how much?...and no one has a trans that will handle their power (at least no one is talking about one that wouldn't involve something really, really exotic). Not to mention that none of these 928s have done 1000hp and 850 ftlbs of torque----at least not yet. You can easily see where this goes...it's beyond silliness.


I like my 928, and I like the Quick 32 car. They are worlds apart. They should each be respected for what they ARE, not what we'd like them to be....the quick 32 car will never turn a corner at over 15mph and the 928 will never run the 1/8th in the low 5's at over 145mph.

if this guy wants to restore a Weissach, I'm all for it!!!

Geeez I need to go back to work....I'm spending entirely tooo much time on this!!!!


--Russ

[Danglerb]

The 928 is a fine example of Porsche engineering, and regardless of what some say, many of us really enjoy working on them. Buying tools is now my second hobby.

[MPDano]

Yup, opinions are opinions and that's it. Do what you feel is right for you. Yeah, it might cost you a bundle, but the experience really is priceless. I bought my 81 Euro trashed and I am proud that actually got it running and running pretty good. The experience taught me loads and the help here is awesome.

Pictures are worth a thousand words here. If you have an issue or a part you cannot ID, I bet if you post a pic someone will recognize it. Document all that you do as you go with pics. I have a 48 page thread on my forums and i am always going back to it for reference.

Link to my 81 Euro Project:
http://porsche928forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4&sid=06df164a2242eb04f71ca427172e2e2f

[928SROCK]

Hey does anyone know what Weissach means or stands for? Did you all know that the lead designer at gm that helped design the corvette in the 70's worked for Porsche and helped design the 928? Tony Lapine was his name.