"Excellence" article values versus REALITY~

[Danglerb]

Originally Posted by Landseer

We've seen postings where some foreign oil baron cars with ridiculously low mileage trade for low money recently.

The handful of $25k about a thousand mile 928's got zero publicity outside the local market of Brunei, otherwise I think they would have sold for twice as much on the world market, maybe more.

My guess is there are a number of people here and on rennlist that know the value of a 928 very well, but it has a LOT of wiggle due to specifics of the car and location, and only way to set a firm value is to actually sell it. If the ad is well done, and or first bid high enough that it takes two or three passes to sell on ebay, its hard to argue that the selling price isn't the fair market price.

[Normy]

Originally Posted by Danglerb

The handful of $25k about a thousand mile 928's got zero publicity outside the local market of Brunei, otherwise I think they would have sold for twice as much on the world market, maybe more.

My guess is there are a number of people here and on rennlist that know the value of a 928 very well, but it has a LOT of wiggle due to specifics of the car and location, and only way to set a firm value is to actually sell it. If the ad is well done, and or first bid high enough that it takes two or three passes to sell on ebay, its hard to argue that the selling price isn't the fair market price.

That is very true. Many of the above posts are true, at a certain level.

-What I am looking for is a generally accepted "percentage" of the great numbers on Excellence. What do you folks think? I feel that a near-perfect 1985 928 5 speed that runs right and everything is working, and has few paint blemishes....is probably worth $11,000. That is a car in which everything works, it has an "even-fireing" V8 engine, and the cruise control works fine. It is an S2, and has an Ott X and a 928 Specialists chip for the ignition. What's more, I have chipped the ignition via Porken's chip.

Time slip: 13.86@ 105.86 in Bithlo, Florida in 2002. And that was when it was running rough. I bet I could knock 1/3 of a second off that trap time and add another mph if I had it in the tune that I have it right now!

But what its the value of this car versus what "Excellence" magazine states?

Percentage?


N!

[Landseer]

Too many variables and too few cars to make that kind of statistical ratio, I think.

Are you asking what your own car is worth?

Maybe post up some really good pictures.

But I'd not think somebody could value one, not a daily driver, based on deductions of percentage from base. I know too much about the variations in condition and the layers of parts complexity / hidden issues in these battleships to fall into that kind of trap.

As far as I'm concerned, the valuation game is played with the museum pieces exclusively, whether they are known examples or hidden treasures that are unearthed such as Blue 82.

If a daily driver with 80+K miles, great shape for the age, not very much money.

What flips me out is guys with daily drivers thinking these are some kind of rolling investment. I love the way they dream up ways to position ads to catch starry-eyed porsche newbies to overpay. Happens once every two weeks it seems ( I'm a victim too).

Now, talking about breaking it up as parts, that's a different story.

[jim ross]

I believe with the re-emergence of 80's "cool" and the REAL possibility of porsche re-issueing the 928 in 2011 that our old stallions WILL increase in value..really theres no way but up from here!LOL

[jim ross]

original quote from normy--Time slip: 13.86@ 105.86 in Bithlo, Florida in 2002. And that was when it was running rough. I bet I could knock 1/3 of a second off that trap time and add another mph if I had it in the tune that I have it right now!




hey thats not a bad time..was that all stock engine? that was orlando speed world right? i used to race KARTS on the 1/4 mile asphalt oval in back....we were running 200cc BRIGGS animal engines w/ left turn only offset chassis..top times were in low 16's..and thats with lifting for the turns! God i wish i could get my 928 on that banked oval! its sad they destroyed the track with all that stupid bus racing and hillbilly derbies!
N![/QUOTE]

[DanielDudley]

I sometimes sell cars to a dealer I know. Sold my last 928, the 89 five speed to him for 14 K. I had previously offered it on rennlist for 14 K.

The dealer sold it for 22 in less than a month. I have a very super 85 that was modified by Al Holbert back when it was new. He did this before he ran the world record car, and it was one of the first 32 valve cars in the country. I may be offering it up for sale soon, and I wonder if anyone here or on rennlist would even offer me 11 or 12 ?

It would be sadly funny to see all the so called faithfull pass it up even though it has been serviced properly and pampered all it's life, only to sell it to a dealer who will no doubt pay my asking price and then turn it over for 18 to 20.

My last car sold for him in less than a month. I'm not sure what that says or means, but of course I always reccomend buying the best car that you can.

[DanielDudley]

Oh yeah. I do pay good money for a good car, and it really pays off. I also make sure that they get the service that they need. I have done it the other way, and I still feel this is the way to achieve the best value on a 928, unless you are willing to do all the work yourself, or you WANT to spend money saving a car.

BTW, Even if you do do all the work yourself, many will still wind up spending more.

Do your research, and buy wisely.

[Danglerb]

Nice cars are rare, great deals on them more rare, but they do happen and most of us here know that, and being cheap we wait.

Dealers have so many tools to sell cars at higher prices than individuals can its a pointless comparison.

[XLR8928]

A 928's value is directly proposional to what you're willing to spend. I have an '80us, that by euro 928 standards is somewhat slow. That being said, I've got under $3k in her, she runs super, and always makes me smile. I plan on getting an S4 in the future, but..
kind of attached to the old girl, so...I'll have two. Having owned a '79 in the 80's, I can only say that it's a blessing that (most) of the world at large is ignorant concerning these cars.
Otherwise, most of us would be priced out of ownership. I guess book value is less important
than intrinsic value to me. -My 2 cents anyway-
-K
value

[Normy]

My original post didn't deal with individual cars values, I was looking to establish a percentage of the values quoted in "Excellence" in order to come up with a realistic value for our cars. My car? It is valued at over $11,000 now, but if I put it on eBay, I don't know if I would get "over $11,000". It is in perfect condition, but several things don't work [cruise control, central locks, sunroof....] So I don't know what it would do. I'm not interested in selling it, or I would simply put it on eBay and see where the chips fell. Two years ago I sold my MINT [kept in my living room~] 1976 Honda CB-750-four motorcycle, and the prevailing wisdom was that it was worth $1100, yet it fetched $1900! And the new owner was so happy that she sent me an email, upon seeing the condition of the bike...

[If you were strong....you could start the engine cold by using your arm to push the kick start down: My carburetor cleaning and over-all mechanical skills are apparently quite proficient!]

telling me that she was VERY happy. I probably could have gotten more for the bike if the pictures were better. Oh well- I bought it for $500. $1400 profit...just for driving it 14,000 miles over 14 years.

Not every vehicle can work out like that motorcycle. At the same time, there has to be an average percentage of the prices that Excellence mentions. Thoughts?

N?

[cali4sun]

[QUOTE=Normy;5159819]What is a car worth? It is worth what someone will pay for it.

I believe you answer lies here. It's a buyers market.... I define Perfect condition as everything works. How can you say this and put a caveat???, and still expect your car to be worth $11,000. So does your question really matter??? If you are truly needing the answer regarding percentage of values I believe you can email Excellence and have them answer it for you!

[Normy]

[QUOTE=cali4sun;5168260]

Originally Posted by Normy

What is a car worth? It is worth what someone will pay for it.

I believe you answer lies here. It's a buyers market.... I define Perfect condition as everything works. How can you say this and put a caveat???, and still expect your car to be worth $11,000. So does your question really matter??? If you are truly needing the answer regarding percentage of values I believe you can email Excellence and have them answer it for you!

You didn't understand my original post. The whole idea about this thread revolves around the fact that the values published in Excellence are inaccurate. I was hoping to get a group-determined idea as to what the approximate percentage of what was quoted in that magazine would be reasonable. Ball-park figure, nothing more.

N

[Danglerb]

Average doesn't mean much when the same car could sell for $2k one week and $5k another week.

[rhjames]

[QUOTE=Normy;5168358]

Originally Posted by cali4sun

You didn't understand my original post. The whole idea about this thread revolves around the fact that the values published in Excellence are inaccurate. I was hoping to get a group-determined idea as to what the approximate percentage of what was quoted in that magazine would be reasonable. Ball-park figure, nothing more.

N

the data you are looking for (percentage of accuracy) is an approximate.....and there lies the problem(?)

an interesting project would be gathering accurate selling prices for each model (OB, Euro OB, OB "S", Euro OB "S", 85/86, S4, GT, GTS, etc). you could break it down even further by each individual year model, auto or 5 speed, etc. then you could go further with stone cold stock or modified (to what extent?) Then you can get into condition and other such mundane issues.

Time period? pick one....monthly, quarterly, yearly?

the data should be collected from the usual sources, eBay/Craigslist/Rennlist/Autotrader/PCA Panamera Mag/etc.....I'm sure I've left out several others.


Frankly, I think it would interesting to do the project, but somewhat time consuming to collect---much of it has already been done for you on the individual websites (eBay, Autotrader)---but then enter onto excel spreadsheet and provide to the masses for their digestion.

The results might surprise everyone.

As to Excellence......take it with a grain of salt. Don't rely on just one publication for values, if you're in the market to purchase.

Think of it this way Normy.....

All general statements are false.

--R

[XLR8928]

Originally Posted by Landseer

My 86 is good example. Just over 70K miles. The guy had it over 22 years. It was at the dealer, facing TB/WP job, brakes, MM/Pan gasket, Wheel bearings, etc. $2000 quote just for the TB/WP. The dealer service manager said he drove it personally to the back lot and parked it there a year earlier, so we knew it was a running car. The guy wanted to give it to charity at that point. We stepped in just in time, my son told him it might be worth 3K, guy said "write a check for $2000 and its yours." He and his wife were just happy to have it in a home that would fix it. So far, my wife has put 19,000 miles on it. Beautiful car. The guy didn't want to mess with an ungrateful buyer if he sold it for too much, plus, got a heck of a lot more than if he donated it.

The most interesting thing for me was the shift set-up. The Bowden was so loose that it would upshift to fourth by the time you hit 35 mph or so. Made it feel like it was on its last legs, motor, trans, everything. Not so. Not so.

Am now into this one for $5500 including tires and original purchase price.

Got a second one with a similar story, too, a little more damage from sitting though.

When they are new, they are up to standard. When 25 years old, as complex as they are, all kinds of subsystems need work. Pristine, worth a lot. 25 year old DD, its fixable usually, but worth only salvage prices.

So....does this corralate to the newer cars as well (i.e. '87 up)?
I really, really would like a GTS....but, a nice '87-'89 5spd would do nicely.
(good lord, I need more garage space)
-K

[Landseer]

Well, I'm glad you captured my post as I accidently deleted it.

Yes, I think it does. What do you think Mason is doing? Exactly what I did. Except he recognized the value of the parts and wants to capitalize on that.

[XLR8928]

I hate to be emotional about an inanimate object, (my wife laughs at me) but it still tears me up to see a 928 parted, unless it's really a mess, or totalled.
-Kerry

[Landseer]

I've got room for a few more, but they are such a time drain.

[XLR8928]

Originally Posted by Landseer

I've got room for a few more, but they are such a time drain.

Chris,
If you come across an inexpensive S4 or '84 euro thats not too rough, I might be able to convince my CFO (wife) to let me buy another car.
-Kerry

[andrewgoh]

I was in a recent accident in which my 84 928S with 78K miles was totalled.

I used the Excellence article to support my discussion with the insurance company. They originally offered $9800 for the car. We finally ended up with an agreement for a reimbursement value of $13,700.