'82 Euro timing, round 2

[morriss]

Okay, finally got a timing light that also displays RPMs. Unhooked the top vacuum line and plugged it, put the timing light inductive pick-up on plug wire #1, and got the car to operating temp. Had my wife rev the engine to 3000 RPMs and I turned the distributor until the 26* mark lined up with the pointer (remember, my harmonic balancer only has 10* TDC 10* 26* on it). Put the top vacuum line back on.
HOWEVER, now the 928 idles at 2100 RPMs, not 800 + or - 50 like the WSM says it should be. Could I still be a tooth off or something?

[Mrmerlin]

put the engine at TDC and see where the distributor lines up in relation to the hash mark on the dist body if the engine is running at 2100rpm then its way too far advanced and you may burn a valve

[morriss]

Before I set the timing today, the pointer under the dist. cap was pointing towards the #1 plug with the harmonic balancer set at TDC. I have not been able to find the scratch on the lower portion of the dist. body. I have even taken a wire brush to it and have still not been able to find it.

P.S. Cool new pic. for your avatar.

[Mrmerlin]

well there should be a hash mark on the dist look for it possibly someone has put the dist in the wrong way and rewired the cap

[DPW928]

Not sure about your 82 euro cis but on my 78 you disconnect BOTH vacuum lines to the distributor before timing. That way you are only measuring the timing with the mechanical advance.

Dennis

[morriss]

Originally Posted by DPW928

Not sure about your 82 euro cis but on my 78 you disconnect BOTH vacuum lines to the distributor before timing. That way you are only measuring the timing with the mechanical advance.

Dennis

Yes, manual says to pull BOTH Vacuum lines, but everyone else here has said to just pull the top one.

I have been playing with moving the dist. tooth by tooth since last night. Here is where I'm at right now:

Tooth setting #1= car idles around 630 RPM with dist. centered on bolt to tighten dist. in place. When twisted to advance to 800-815 at idle, I can't even rev the engine to 3,000 RPMs. It only goes up to 2300 with gas pedal to the floor.

2) Tooth setting #2 (next tooth over)= Car idles around 1900 RPM with dist. centered on bolt to tighten dist. in place. When twisted to full retard (bolt not letting it go any further) car idles at 1040 RPM.

3) To muddy the waters even more, I was pulling the plugs to make sure they were not sooted over. When I pulled plug #4, the threads were covered in oil, maybe a teaspoon or so. Both ends of the plug were dry, only the threads were wet.

I will post pictures of both my dist. base (to show Merlin what I'm talking about with the groove markings) and of the plug with oil on it.

[morriss]

Here are the pics.

Spark plug #4 with oil on threads


Distributor base groove #1


Dist. groove #2 (It is a little scratch of a line to the right of the tip of the screw driver; this is the best focus I could get after 5-6 different tries).


Another fuzzy shot of the same groove mark.

[JhwShark]

The fuzzy pictures, showing a portion of the vacuum module securing screw, has the TDC mark on it; screwdriver is pointing to it. The other notch is to orient the cap, not TDC.
Jon

[DPW928]

Originally Posted by morriss

Yes, manual says to pull BOTH Vacuum lines, but everyone else here has said to just pull the top one.

I have been playing with moving the dist. tooth by tooth since last night. Here is where I'm at right now:

Tooth setting #1= car idles around 630 RPM with dist. centered on bolt to tighten dist. in place. When twisted to advance to 800-815 at idle, I can't even rev the engine to 3,000 RPMs. It only goes up to 2300 with gas pedal to the floor.

2) Tooth setting #2 (next tooth over)= Car idles around 1900 RPM with dist. centered on bolt to tighten dist. in place. When twisted to full retard (bolt not letting it go any further) car idles at 1040 RPM.

3) To muddy the waters even more, I was pulling the plugs to make sure they were not sooted over. When I pulled plug #4, the threads were covered in oil, maybe a teaspoon or so. Both ends of the plug were dry, only the threads were wet.

I will post pictures of both my dist. base (to show Merlin what I'm talking about with the groove markings) and of the plug with oil on it.

Most everyone here are working with the US version (different cam and fuel system). The bottom vacuum line being connected will cause the timing to retard so your mechanical advance reading will be incorrect.

Dennis

[morriss]

Originally Posted by DPW928

Most everyone here are working with the US version (different cam and fuel system). The bottom vacuum line being connected will cause the timing to retard so your mechanical advance reading will be incorrect.

Dennis

So I should set the dist. to my tooth setting #1 (the lower idle tooth setting), pull / plug both vacuum lines, and then try to adjust the timing?

[DPW928]

Originally Posted by morriss

So I should set the dist. to my tooth setting #1 (the lower idle tooth setting), pull / plug both vacuum lines, and then try to adjust the timing?

Yep!! That should also get your idle closer to spec.

Dennis

[morriss]

Pulling and plugging both hoses made no difference.
#1 tooth setting (lower RPMs) will only get up to 2900 RPMs with pedal to the floor, and I can't twist the dist. any further to line up the pointer with the 26* mark because the dist. hits the mounting bolt at full advance, and it's not enough.

#2 tooth setting allows me to easily hit 3000 RPMs and turn the dist. to line up the pointer with 26*, but then it idles too high, around 1150 - 2000 RPMs.

What am I doing wrong here?

[DPW928]

Are you setting the "rotor" at the notch in the distributor when the harmonic balancer is at TDC? Can't tell from the picture. You may have to rotate the engine one revolution to get the rotor in the correct area. If the distributor won't turn enough to get the rotor on the mark, you will need to pull the distributor to adjust it. All of this should be done after you are sure the timing belt and cams are at the correct marks.

Dennis

[JhwShark]

Originally Posted by DPW928

Are you setting the "rotor" at the notch in the distributor when the harmonic balancer is at TDC? Can't tell from the picture. You may have to rotate the engine one revolution to get the rotor in the correct area. If the distributor won't turn enough to get the rotor on the mark, you will need to pull the distributor to adjust it. All of this should be done after you are sure the timing belt and cams are at the correct marks.

Dennis

Yes, as Dennis suggests assure the cams, crank, and dist are at TDC...In reading through this thread I have not seen you confirm this part.

Does anyone want to comment on a static timming check. I do not remember if on this car 8 or 9 degrees is where a light would illuminate???
Jon

[morriss]

[QUOTE=JhwShark;5410013]Yes, as Dennis suggests assure the cams, crank, and dist are at TDC...In reading through this thread I have not seen you confirm this part.



With the hb at TDC, the cam gears are aligned with the notches on the block and the rotor under the dist. cap is pointing towards where the #1 plug wire attaches to the top of the dist. cap.

[DPW928]

[QUOTE=morriss;5410144]

Originally Posted by JhwShark

Yes, as Dennis suggests assure the cams, crank, and dist are at TDC...In reading through this thread I have not seen you confirm this part.



With the hb at TDC, the cam gears are aligned with the notches on the block and the rotor under the dist. cap is pointing towards where the #1 plug wire attaches to the top of the dist. cap.

The cam gears should have their notches aligned with the pointers on the cam gear backing plates. The pointer on the right side is sometimes difficult to locate since it's at the 9 or 10 oclock position. Line the rotor up with the notch on the distributor and the #1 wire. If you don't have enough movement to adjust the timing when running, the distributor should be removed and rotor/gear turned to center the bolt hole in the adjustment slot when the rotor is pointing at the notch on the distributor.


Dennis

[morriss]

I have to work on the "honey -do" list this weekend - I have been ignoring it to work on the 928 for a while now. So it will be next week before I can get back to timing issue. I think my father, an old hot-rodder, is going to come over next Tuesday to give me hand too. That way he can double-check everything I have done so far.

[DPW928]

If your father (an old hot rodder) can tear down and rebuild a quadrajet (he'll know what it is ), then he is more than capable of working on the 928! Just make sure you have the manuals available for him.

[morriss]

Originally Posted by DPW928

If your father (an old hot rodder) can tear down and rebuild a quadrajet (he'll know what it is ), then he is more than capable of working on the 928! Just make sure you have the manuals available for him.

He's an old Chevy guy; he has 2 Vettes (1960 and 1993), a '68 Camaro RS/SS, and a Suburban. In fact, he road-raced Corvettes for Chevy down in Mexico from 1957-58 when they were experimenting with larger engines and fuel injection upgrades.

[MPDano]

He'll be ok with the 928. What DPW meant is that the 928 is just different in some respects.