951 purchase... help!

[benny_benny]

I have a friend whos neibor has a 86’ 951 for sale. It’s been sitting for a couple years and is in rough shape. The body is a good 40+ paint/body with faded guards red. The drivers side is keyed pretty bad, the pass. Side has fender damage from blowouts at both fenders, the front bumper is bubbled from hitting something, but it’s not too noticeable. The interior is trashed from the rear hatch being broken out. I helped the guy replace it though. The odometer has stopped working at 144k for probably the last 6 years. Under the hood she idles nicely at 900. But here is the bad: needs a alternator, master cylinder, cam cover gasket, 1-4 header is rotted, belts, air filter housing, the power steering leaks through the whole reservoir in week & gives feedback when driving. The oil cooler has broke from it’s mounts, has a bent rim, the turbo doesn’t boost all of the way, and the compression test I preformed came in at 120 PSI across the board….

The owner wants $3500, I’ve offered $2000.. what do you guys think?

[Grandad#3]

This is a "MONEY PIT" leave it alone, or see if you could part it out and make some money. The way you described it the inside is trashed, both front fenders need repair and the nose. It will cost right at $165 for another rim not to mention all $$$$$$ in the engine repairs, paint, clutch, trans, etc., etc..

Cheers,
Larry

[mikepellegrini]

I paid $2,000 for my 86 951 that was in a whole lot better condition - the interior is very good - nice leather sport seats in great shape (the PO put seat covers on which preserved the leather) and the dash has no cracks - exterior - the paint was "okay" but had a lot of rock chips in the nose - no dents.

The car had sat 2 years. To get it running, basically all I had to do was replace the TPS. I've put a couple thousand more in since then (tires, starter, belts, waterpump, ball joint rebuild, etc) but most of that stuff was not completely necessary.

What you've described is about one short step away from being a parts car - interior and exterior thrashed.

The guy's dreaming if he thinks he can get $3,500. Maybe if he parts it out he can get that much - although it might take a couple years that way.

I wouldn't pay even $2,000 for it - maybe $1,000 - but that'd be it.

I do my own mechanical work so that's not a biggie for me - none of the mechanical repairs you cited are that terrible. But body work and painting is (cause I suck at painting).

If you can do both the body and mechanical, and you know precisely what you're getting into in the way of expenses, then go for it.

But otherwise I think I'd probably walk away.

[kdjones2000]

It sounds like a parts car - it will take too much $$ in parts alone to make it right.

I wouldn't take it if he gave it to me, as I don't have a place to store it to part it out.

If you have space, then it might be worth something under $1000, but I am not a recycler, so I don't know what those guys are paying for things like that.

[choinga]

Run!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[benny_benny]

I know mechanically I can get her in tip top shape, but as said. It's really a money pit. I'm going to go over what it needs with the owner and see if i can get a lower offer down. plus, a stack of 20's always look bigger.

It is really weird, when the nice projects are listed you are tapped on dough, but when you have money no good ones are available!

[wild man]

In defense of how good I think these cars are, I "might" go 1500, but not a cent more. But like was said, 2k can get you one in far better shape. With the body work that it needs, I would actually have to pass on it. That is because body work requires patience. And patience is a virtue, that I don't have (I think it goes with the territory, for those who suffer from ADHD).

[JAXTURBO]

What the heck. I'll throw my 2 cents in. Unless you're independently wealthy, and a decent wrench, I'd run far and fast away from this one. Oh, you should have also have an abundance of time available to spend with your new project. The one thing I can say having owned 2 1/2 of these, you can't nickel and dime them. If you decide to go for it, have your slush fund and bank of time ready... you'll need loads of both.

[Yellowb1rd]

I'd have to agree with Jaxturbo on this one. People always make this mistake... "I'll buy this now, and just restore it, and have a really nice example when I'm done" Unless you're Jay Leno, then this is one you might really want to reconsider. Parts are expensive, no matter how you slice and dice it. If you have more time than money, you can chip away at this car, and see it transform slowly into a roadworthy vehicle(I've done it myself). If you have more money than time, then BUY one that doesn't need everything short of an exorcism to make it roadworthy again . If you enjoy car restoration...be prepared to spend A LOT of money and time on the project (much more than you would than if you had just bought a well-maintained example in the first place). As a 951 owner myself, and my fellow Porsche owners can attest, even nice examples require a commitment of time and money to keep them from becoming the money pit you're about to walk into. If you go into it understanding that, then you (hopefully) won't give up on the project when you realize that this isnt something that can be finished in a week, month, or possibly a year or more. Also understand that you will NEVER sell this car for a profit should you undertake said project. You will LOSE money. I guarantee that - But if you love tinkering, and have done this before, you'll have accepted that fact already.

If you aren't the type of person that can finish what you start, then RUN from this deal. The excitement of buying a new toy that isn't running will quickly give way to reality, and you'll end up selling it a couple of years down the road, as I guarantee this is a project for a tinkerer. Save your cash for a nice example if its what you really want, as you will spend a LOT less in the long run for one that needs only routine maintanance.

Personally, the difference between buying this car for 1500, or even a 1000 dollars as recommended in earlier posts is a joke. That savings isn't going to help you much - you can and will spend that quickly on this vehicle. You're not doing it for the cost savings - you should be buying it for the love of the restoration. If you're concerned about price now, just WAIT until you see how much some of the parts are going to cost you. 1000 bucks will seem insignificant.
Based on what I've read on the condition of this car, be prepared to spend at least and additional 12K (and this is very conservative) to get it into nice (non-concourse) condition, and that's YOU doing all of the labor(including the bodywork). A Porsche restoration shop will charge you 3 to 5 times that if you want them to do it all. To make it concourse, we wont even TALK about how much that would cost for a shop to do it.

[JAXTURBO]

Originally Posted by Yellowb1rd

... that doesn't need everything short of an exorcism to make it roadworthy again...

Quite graphic, and also dead on

[choinga]

"exorcism..."

You have no idea.

[Streetcrawler]

Pics?

[mikeran]

I bought a "Barn find" 951 a while back and it ran and I even drove it home, I paid $1200 for it, and then spent close to $2500 before I gave up on ever getting it complete, everytime I got one seciotn fixed up something else would go bad, once these sit for a while, figure everything rubber has to be replaced, and lots of small electrical gremlins. and thats not even considering a new paint job plus all the exterior rubber that goes with that.

[oldass31]

I would budget at least $8,000 for immediate parts, tools, and body work. This is assuming I do the installs myself and use a professional for the body work. The $8000 figure, of course, would not include a proper paint job and clear rock chip bra. I'd try redying the carpets in the back. Maybe a quality tint job to hide any leftover ugly. Maybe go with aftermarket seats to save some dough. The list goes on and on.

Honestly, if you're trying to restore this car to the point where you wouldn't be red-faced at the average car show, expect to pay about $15,000 after initial price assuming no electrical/grounding problems or a cracked block/head.

If you plan on doing the work yourself, and have less than a saint for a spouse, forget about it. If you have the cash to have a shop do it instead, then you wouldn't bat an eyelash at a mere $1,500 bucks.

[piperporsche180]

If you can get it for $2,000 and you dont buy it send me his number. Ill take it :P

[Streetcrawler]

I totally disagree with many of the quitters here.

In relative terms these are rare cars and should be restored, not throw away. There were only 25,000 951 cars WORLDWIDE when new.

To put that in perspective. Ford made over 500,000 Mustangs in 1965 alone!!!

People are paying high dollars for cars that look pretty and currently run. Most of those have old paint, working but old parts that will need replacing at some point anyway.

I personally think you can have a better, nicer, newer car by buying a "Barn find" and fixing it up wisely. Fresh paint and rubber seals are not really that expensive. Not to mention the reliability of refreshed mechanical parts. You can also upgrade along the way.

If you are always looking for the cheapest way to fix a broken part, or are paying a shop to do all the work the car will probably kill you. If you enjoy restoring a classic and taking pride in making it nice again then you can have a better car in the long run.

[nize]

Originally Posted by Streetcrawler

I personally think you can have a better, nicer, newer car by buying a "Barn find" and fixing it up wisely. Fresh paint and rubber seals are not really that expensive. Not to mention the reliability of refreshed mechanical parts. You can also upgrade along the way.

while i agree with this, buyers should keep in mind they will probably end up spending anywhere from $15k to $25k or more to properly restore a barn find.

compare that to the bluebook value, and you'll realize that people who restore/hotrod these cars do it for the love of the car, and not to turn a quick profit.

if profit is what you have in mind (and it seems to be for people seeking barn finds), the 951 is not for you.

[benny_benny]

Well, I bought it. I bought her to keep. I'm probably going to need some tech advise later, But I'm gonna have all the fun fixing her up. =]

I'll have some pics soon.

[Streetcrawler]

Originally Posted by nize

while i agree with this, buyers should keep in mind they will probably end up spending anywhere from $15k to $25k or more to properly restore a barn find.

compare that to the bluebook value, and you'll realize that people who restore/hotrod these cars do it for the love of the car, and not to turn a quick profit.

if profit is what you have in mind (and it seems to be for people seeking barn finds), the 951 is not for you.

I actually think you can have a better car cheaper by buying one that needs work.

For example. I got a huge discount on my car because it needed a clutch. I upgraded to a cup clutch, KEP pressure plate, rebuilt the torque tube and fixed a few other issues while in there.

Now I have a far superior set up over stock and spent less total than I would have buying a car that didn't need a clutch. (and would have only come with a working stock unit that may fail in the near future).

[Yellowb1rd]

agreed to an extent, but this car needs a lot more than a clutch, and the replacement parts are fairly big money, so its gonna cost him major coinage to get this one up to snuff. Theyre's basically a laundry list of things that he named off.. and that's just what he can see. Some of the parts are getting rare too....It's hard for me to even find a 16" phone dial for my year - 87!!!