synthetic oil or petroliam?

[eurotech 12]

hi people i have a question about switching from reg oil to syn any benifits and do i have to flush engine for any residue from reg oil? i live in fl it gets hot in summer i am now useing gtx 20 50 regular driver daily if so whats the best syn to use? 94 turbo 3.6 thanks dave

[ilko]

I use Brad Penn 20W-50 with great results.

The current blend of synthetics don't offer enough additives for our "old" cars.

[lucittm]

I like Mobile 1 because that is what the factory put in my car when it was new. I use the 15W-50 because it has the highest phosphorus levels of their non-motorcycle/truck oils (1200ppm).

From reading the literature, you can go from dino oil to synth with no worries. Switching back can cause problems because the synth oil doesn't want to "let go" of the metal. But I have not heard of any engine damage from doing this.

Mark

Mark

[ilko]

Actually when your car was new the factory used Shell Rotella oil not Mobil 1. And BTW Mobil 1 15W-50 from, say, 2002 is not the same as Mobil 1 15W-50 from 2009. It's in fact quite different.

[Newsboy]

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but there is a wealth of information here and on Rennlist.
Use the search function & pay attention to ZDDP levels.

[lucittm]

ilko,
I understand that you like your Brad Penn. Dave was asking what is the best synth oil to use in post #1. So I offered my opinion. Yours is different, OK.

Here is the Mobil 1 spec sheet from 11/21/08, notice that it does not say 2002:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf

I should have been more clear, Mobil 1 is what the factory is putting in new Porsche's now. They put the best oil available in my car back in 1991, and that WAS Shell Rotella. Rotella has been reformulated and is hard to find now and since the factory switched to Mobil 1, so have I.

From the website:
"Mobil 1 is factory fill in:

Acura RDX

Aston Martin

All Bentley Vehicles

All Cadillac Vehicles

Chevrolet Corvette C6 and Z06

Chevrolet TrailBlazer SS

Chrysler 300C SRT-8

Cobalt SS S/C Coupe

Dodge Caliber SRT-4, Charger SRT-8, and Magnum SRT-8

Jeep Cherokee SRT-8

Mercedes-Benz AMG Vehicles

Mercedes SLR

Mitsubishi Evolution

Pontiac Solstice GXP

All Porsche Vehicles

Saturn Ion Red Line and Saturn Sky Red Line

Viper SRT-10"

Good enough for me.

Mark

[ilko]

Mark, the OP asked whether to switch to synthetic. Also you incorrectly stated that your car came with Mobil 1 from the factory, then backtracked.

Last year at the ALMS race at Lime Rock the Mobil 1 rep was pressed about current Mobil 1 oils in air-cooled engines. I was standing 20 feet from him when he admitted that the current line of oils in not suitable for our cars. That's something many of us have known for a long time. I couldn't care less what their web site says. It's a well-known fact that current Mobil 1 oils do not have enough ZDDP to protect our engines.

And yeah, the oil ingredients change, yet the brand name stays the same. Mobil 1 15W-50 from 5-10 years ago is not the same as the one in stores today.

[lucittm]

ilko,
This will be my last post on this matter. The OP asked, and I quote, "so whats the best syn to use?" Not as you say whether to switch or not. Also, I think I clarified my mistake regarding the factory fill on my car. If my car was manufactured today, it would be factory-filled with Mobile 1. Why is that so hard for you to understand? To keep using Rotella (if I could find it) when Porsche abandoned Rotella in favor of Mobil 1, seems like chasing nostalgia instead of new technology.

I guess you didn't read the Mobil 1 spec sheet dated 11/21/08. It clearly shows the amount of additive in the 15W-50 and that has nothing to do with Mobile 1 from 5-10 years ago. I don't think Exxon Mobil would risk a lawsuit by advertising an additive that their oil is purported to contain but does not.

My car is not a race car and I could care less what some guy says at Lime Rock regarding race cars. My car is a daily driver. I recently overhauled the engine at 62K miles myself and found NO WEAR on ANY cam, rocker arm, piston, valve, or bearing - none. Walt at Competition Engineering did the head work and put the original parts back in the heads except for the exhaust valve guides and we all know about the metalurgical issue with those.

You can keep using Brad Penn. If you will notice, I said nothing bad about the Brad Penn oil you are using and I never will. And I will keep using Mobil 1. In another 100K miles we can both tear down our engines and see which one has more wear, corrosion, and deposits.

As for the issue of ZDDP contained in current stocks of Mobile 1, it is relatively easy to quantitatively determine the level of ZDDP ppm in the oil. I will send a fresh sample of new Mobile 1 to an independent elemental engine oil testing lab:
http://www.wetestit.com/lube_testing.htm
I will report back to the forum with a printout of the results. I invite you to do the same with your Brad Penn.

Mark

[ilko]

You want an oil analysis?

Here you go, Castrol 20W-50 vs Brad Penn 20W-50. And yes I did use leaded race gas.



I rest my case

[dan79brooklyn]

Here is my Blackstone report running Mobil 1 MXT 10-40 - Synthetic Motorcycle oil:

[Steve W]

Use the Mobil1 20-50 V-Twin motorcycle oil. It has all the ZDDP of the the old Mobil1 formula and what I use in my cars. Its also what Charles Navarro recommended when cost is not an object. They sell at Autozone for about $9-10/quart. The regular 15-50 street car formulation is questionable with regards to the additives.

[dmwallace]

eurotech 12,

Lots (and lots) of good oil info here:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=367300

I'm using Swepco 15W-40 in my current car; used Brad Penn 20w-50 in my previous car. Both are recommended by the oil gurus, as are other choices mentioned by other posters.



Regards,
David

[Tom W]

I used to use Mobile 1. However, Mobil 1's formulation has changed over the years and it no longer provides the protection that we used to get. My engine needed new rod bearings after only about 12 hours due to Porsche's changes to the rob bearings and Mobil 1's changes. After doing some research on the additive levels in various oils, the shop recommended a switch to Swepco. You can likely use whatever you desire in a street car, but if you are going to push your engine hard, Mobil 1 is no longer the oil of choice.

[earlyapex]

1+ for Swepco!

[s_morrison57]

Rotella , now I'm confused. Its still available and is the recomended oil for Detroit Diesel engines, the smaller 2 stroke engines , 353, 453. How could that be good for a P car , are we talking the same engine oil ????

[ilko]

Originally Posted by s_morrison57

Rotella , now I'm confused. Its still available and is the recomended oil for Detroit Diesel engines, the smaller 2 stroke engines , 353, 453. How could that be good for a P car , are we talking the same engine oil ????

The Rotella from the early 90's is very different from the one you see on store shelves today. Same applies for Mobil 1 - the formula changes all the time.

[CDMdriver]

The bottom line is that a synthetic oil is always better than a dino oil. Dino oils start to break down at 150 degrees whereas synthetic oils are designed to handle much higher temperatures before affecting the viscosity. On our hotter running air (oil) cooled engines you definitely want to use only synthetic oil and I would not use any oil below a 15W-50. Mobile 1 is one of the best oils on the market and should not cause you any concern. If anyone's engine needed new rod bearing after only 12 hours using Mobile 1 oil, the problem was in the rod bearings not the oil.

I use the same Mobile 1 15W-50 oil in my Harley-Davidson.

[lucittm]

While I was waiting for my lab report, Blackstone Labs sent me a lab report of new Mobil-1 and it shows that the levels of Phosphorus and Zinc (the main constituents of ZDDP), although not as high as the Mobil-1 V-twin 20W-50, are certainly comparable to the Brad Penn oil that some claim to be superior to Mobil-1.




I think that we need to keep our eye on the oil makers and make sure our air-cooled engines have oil that contains the most ZDDP that we can afford regardless of the manufacturer.

Mark

[GBX]

Originally Posted by Steve W

Use the Mobil1 20-50 V-Twin motorcycle oil. It has all the ZDDP of the the old Mobil1 formula and what I use in my cars. Its also what Charles Navarro recommended when cost is not an object. They sell at Autozone for about $9-10/quart. The regular 15-50 street car formulation is questionable with regards to the additives.

bumping a very old thread, but what oil are you guys using in your 964's these days?

[greg1990964]

Mobil 1 for v twin.

What I use and my cams look brand new.