What is the word on lubrication of wheel studs for race cars?

[Geneman]

Yes? No? I am having trouble with some newly installed studs ( these are the press-in kind for 70s-80s 911 hubs) which are binding yet have no discernible cross threading or nicks etc. its not the lugs themselves

I think some of the track support crews i have had used a bit of anti-seize but cannot remember exactly.

If a substance is used, does this affect the the torque applied ?

i searched this but did not find anything.

thanks. Frank.

[mikePTH]

Put a thread checker on them, you might have gotten the wrong pitch. Otherwise our stud maintenace is to clean/chase threads, hit with a torch for a few seconds, then spray with a high-temp dry film lube like Molykote.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Why the torch? More cleaning?

--DD

[Geneman]

thanks mike. will do. great idea on molykote

[Cory M]

I've been putting the occasional dab of anti-sieze (nickel based) on the stud threads and torquing to 96 ft-lbs on air-cooled racecars for going on 20 years now, I've never broken a stud or had a nut loosen up. This is using open steel nuts.

[Cajundaddy]

My dad was an aerospace engineer and preached “no dry threads ever” per the SAE handbook. A touch of anti-seize or even WD-40 allows the studs to stretch to spec when properly torqued. Just a bit to remove unnecessary friction when tightening. Don’t goop em up. Never had a torqued lug nut loosen in 15 years of Porsche track work.

[stownsen914]

As a side benefit, light lubrication helps prevent oxidation

[Geneman]

Thanks everyone. superb real -world info. BTW. seems some of my threads damaged near the ends. I tried a standard die to chase them but its very difficult to get it started without crossing. in rummaging around the internet i found this , cooler-than-snot tool . Its a split die. M14x1.5. you start it on the good threads then just back it off to chase/repair the tips. uses a 1" 7/16 deep socket. saves the huge hassle of stud replacement. especially at the track.

https://www.threadtoolsupply.com/wheel-stud-split-die-thread-repair-kit.html

[962porsche]

when it comes to putting any lube on a wheel stud , nut or bolt this is a DO NOT EVER DO THING!
1st is all auto makers give you a torque spec of a dry clean stud. lubing a stud nut or bolt will give you a incorrect torque and lead to an over torqued wheel fastener!
if your having a problem with the stud, nut or bolt you replace it or in a few cases you can run a thread chaser / cleaner. thread chasers / cleaners are not tapes or dies both of these are made for making threads not to clean them.
there is also the fact that you never torque or check the torque of your wheel fasteners with the wheel hot or warm. you only check them when they are ambient air temps.
god knows how many people pull in off the track and start checking or retorting there wheel fasteners.

if your oughting a 30 plus year racer and race car builder and 25 years of race engineering work on a Porsche cup team and then a IMSA team just look at any site like discount tire , tire rack and so on and see what they say about lubercation on wheel fasteners.

[winders]

Dry here......

[Geneman]

DK and Scott. thank you.

[GUMBALL]

Never WD-40 on wheel studs. WD-40 is a water displacing penetrating oil.

Use a small amount of silver anti-seize, 96 Ft-lbs.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by GUMBALL

Never WD-40 on wheel studs. WD-40 is a water displacing penetrating oil.

Use a small amount of silver anti-seize, 96 Ft-lbs.

Agree. A few ft.lbs. less if you worry about over-tightening w/anti-seize.

Sherwood

[winders]

A few pounds less? If you are using anti-size on lug nuts or lug bolts, you should reduce the torque values by ~30%. For example, I torque my dry lug nuts to 100 ft-lbs. If I were to use anti-size and wanted to get the same clamping force, I would use 70 ft-lbs.

[GUMBALL]

I have always used anti-seize on wheel studs on all cars (911, 930, 914-6, 944, 928) and always torqued to 90-96 ft-lbs. Never an issue with wheel stud holes, never an issue with wheel studs. The potential issue with dry wheel studs, is getting the nuts OFF after a period of time.
But, to each his own.

[stownsen914]

Winders is correct. Lubing the threads does change the torque required to achieve the desired tension on the fastener. Remember, torque is just an approximation to get to the desired tension. If you change the parameters (e.g. adding lubrication when the recommended torque is specified with dry threads), you change the tension for a given torque. The % reduction in torque value depends on the lube used, and I've seen a pretty wide range of numbers cited, even for a given lube like anti-seize.

For lugnuts, if you don't take them off very often, it's not a bad idea to put some lube on the threads so they don't rust themselves on. Most don't adjust the torque setting as far as I've heard.

[mikePTH]

Originally Posted by Dave at Pelican Parts

Why the torch? More cleaning?

--DD

Yeah, any oil/grease gets burned off, and it promotes adhesion of the Molykote.

[winders]

I guess the question is, if you use 96 ft-lbs with anti-seize, would you be comfortable using 125 ft-lbs with the threads dry? Because that is the dry torque number that matches 96 ft-lbs with a lubricant.

[LJ851]

One could assemble the fastener dry, mark the rotational end point at the correct torque then lube the threads and torque to the same rotation to find the correct lubed number.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by winders

I guess the question is, if you use 96 ft-lbs with anti-seize, would you be comfortable using 125 ft-lbs with the threads dry? Because that is the dry torque number that matches 96 ft-lbs with a lubricant.

Does PAG recommend installing lug nuts dry or lubed at 96 ft.lbs?