SCCA Club Racing

[ErVikingo]

Hey Guys,

I'm thinking of jumping into SCCA racing since they have more events than any of the clubs I belong to combined. My vintage car would not be competitive except on the very limited Vintage SCCA schedule.

Has anyone tried the c or d sport racers? Any pointers, ideas, suggestions, opinions, .........................?

Desperate for seat time in Ft. Lauderdale.

[jluetjen]

Juan;
Drop me an email off-line for a more detailed discussion. Your '69S might be quite competitive (at least regionally) in E-Production, but you might need to make some changes to it first since the concept of Production Rules are very different then what most people are used to with PCA rules.

Sports Racers can be fun, but a real money pit since a lot of them are one-off's, or heavily modified production race cars such as FF's with FA motors or 1 liter bike motors and fully enclosed body work. They are wickedly fast (their lap times comparable to FA's), but can be fragile and require a lot of maintanance. Keep in mind a lot of guys in those classes are virtually "Home grown" race engineers since the cars have to deal with ground effects, top-side aero, heat rejection issues, suspension system design, etc. etc. etc. Either you need to understand that stuff, or you'll pay someone to worry about that stuff, or else just be slow.

If I were you I'd buy a copy of the GCR (get the complete version with the CD) and read through it. You can compare the rules for the different classes as well as get a sense of what would be involved in converting your car to E-Prod or GT3 which has more liberal rules.

[ErVikingo]

Hey John,

Will do. I'm visiting the Porsche shop tomorrow so I'll be out all day but I'll try to get you sometime tomorrow.

Thanks much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rich22]

There is the Mazda Sports Racer, that fits in CSR. I don't know how competitive they are, but supposedly they are near bulletproof.


Specs here:
http://www.racersedgemotorsports.com/carpages/msr/msr.htm

There are also the Spec sports racers like Spec Racer Ford and the Toyota spec racers. Some of them are so unpopular now they are essentially defunct, so check your local regions to see the entries.

[ErVikingo]

Thanks for the info. Beautiful car and the price well, its basically like buying 2 - 2 liter racing engines.

I like the thought of Mazda reliability.

Thanks again, Juan

[RealRideRacing]

Being reliable is completely different from being competitive. While the Mazda powered sports racer can be bulletproof, it is no different from other sports racers in that one needs to constantly work on the setup. And keep in mind that all the setup requires more specialty tools.
Unlike a production based car, a sportsracer is lightweight and thus has smaller fragile parts. Things will wear out muh quicker, parts are more expensive, and constant tweaking of parts are necessary to squeak out that last 1/100th of a second.
Also keep in mind that there is no 13/13ths in the SCCA. While it's not quite Nascar, there is a little more contact as drivers tend to get much more competitive and aggressive. Whatever you choose, good luck.

[Zeke]

Why not Spec Racer Ford?

[ErVikingo]

David thanks for the heads up. Vintage Porsche racing parts are very expensive. Are you trying to say that Sport racer parts are as or more expensive?

Milt, SRF looks like fun but if I'm to embark on this I need something quicker. I'v driven the SRF on 2 test days and they were quite fun (and feel way quicker from the inside BTW). I had the opportunity to drive a Radical 'on public roads' in England and can tell you that that thing is a blast.

Juan

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

The Radicals may be unbelievably fun on public roads, but I am told they are not competitive in their classes (CSR, DSR) in SCCA. They're just too heavy, and they were also not designed around the class rules. The front-runners in those classes were designed from the outset for those classes specifically.

If you run a Radical, you'll have fun. But chances are you won't be finishing up at the front...

--DD

[ErVikingo]

Thanks Dave. So which are the front runners?

[VincentVega]

This might be helpful http://ww2.scca.com/clubracing.php to see what cars are up front.

[jpachard]

Be aware that SCCA has no 13/13. I have several SCCA racers who live near me and they say to plan on having your car hit at every race. Yikes.. I know it must be pretty accurate since I have seen the damage to both of their cars. If you have a nice car it might not be a good option. The Sports racer looks like a cool class!

Cheers, James

[armandodiaz]

Juan, here in South Florida PBOC has a monthly schedule, which involves 2 day DE/Points races. Here's their website: http://www.pbocflorida.com/ call Bob @ Foreign Affairs in Deerfeild Beach (954.746.0488)
If your dead set on SCCA call Sid @ Troysport in Orlando (407.297.7733) He races both a 356 and a 72 911. He has plenty of info and has been doing it forever. Here's a link to his cars: http://www.troysport.com/projects.htm Tell him Armando sent you, he'll treat you right.

[ErVikingo]

Hey James, I guess I'll have to wear some camouflage paint then

Armando, I belong to Safe, PDC, PCA and HSR. I'm looking into Chin also. I know Bob as he did some stuff to one of my cars years ago (he was still in Sunrise). I moght do some PBOC as a mechanic/friend races there.

I'm just looking for some more action at reasonable distances from home. First baby due in February and I can't see me taking off for 4-5 day weekends anymore.

Have you sold your car already? What's your plan?

Thanks again, Juan

[armandodiaz]

Juan, either the 442 or the Porsche has to go. I can only have one project. Thankfully, I think I have a buyer for the 442 (I'll know in a week or so). So, I think I'm back in buisness as far as my racing. I'm still doing DEs. I'll be at Moroso this weekend (car#13). Then off to Homestead in Dec. Next year I plan on sticking to PBOC and I'll try to go every month or so.

Trust me I know what you mean about having a family. I have 2 and my little girl(9) is going to Sunday School so I'm on my own until next summer. Aside from that the family loves it, especially my son(4). This weekend the Go-Karts are having Finals on Saturday and my family will be there(I'm trying to inspire my son/wife).
I think for the long run I'll be sticking to PBOC. They seem to have a good program: races every month and not too far from home. I think Road Atlanta & Robeling is the farest they go.

As far as actual mechanical work for your car, if you can't take it to Troysport in Orlando, my next choice would be TurboWerks off of Comercial Bvld. talk to Jose. He and my brother work on Alex Jobs pit crew. Again let him know I sent you. As for me, I was a Porsche tech in the 80's so I do all my own work. I just go to Jose and Sid for racing advice.

Good Luck and hopefully I see you at the track.

[ErVikingo]

I'll try to make it this weekend, not driving though. If I do, I'll look you up.

Thanks for the info on Turbowerks. I use 901 Shop for the race car since they are very knowledgeable on early race cars (plus re good friends!)

[jluetjen]

Be aware that SCCA has no 13/13. I have several SCCA racers who live near me and they say to plan on having your car hit at every race.

Personally I think that the 13/13 thing has been overplayed a bit. The next thing you know people will be accusing the SCCA of being "Liberal"!

Having raced in ITB for a number of years (certainly not a class of shrinking violets BTW), I never had people lay a fender on me, nor did I on them. Keep in mind that SCCA racers are also racing on a budget and often can't afford to rebuild their car AND race the rest of the season, especially at the regional level. Some classes are worse then others, but people generally have quite a bit of money tied up in their cars and can't afford to throw it away. Like in all groups, beware the guys who drive like they can afford to rebuild the car after every race.

That being said, you generally won't see any SCCA race cars that look like "garage queens" either. There is incidental contact some time (and you won't be black flagged for it) and so a prudent racer attaches his fenders with dzus fasteners rather then rivets to simplify repairs. You may have heard of DFM (Design for manufacturbility), well smart race cars from F1 down to karts are designed with DFR (Design for repairability) in mind. You should also have some contingency funds in your budget just in case.

But it's hardly like demolition derby, and in many cases less rough and tumble then I've seen in the VARA videos posted here. Watch the Runoffs when Speed broadcasts them later next month. By most accounts the Runoffs often have the roughest driving because it is do-or-die championship situation.

[RealRideRacing]

Juan,
I'd say as expensive, but they will need replacing or rebuilding much more often. For example, a good Loynings engine will need refreshing about twice a year for National club racing, and you'll probably have to bring a spare or two if you plan on going to the Runoffs. Uprights are usually one off items so most of it is made at your local machine shop at standard shop rates.
If you have access to machine tools and are very mechanically inclined, then a sports racer is a good way to go. But if you depend on a mechanic for your production based race car, then you either need to have a generous race budget or look at other options.

Regards,
David
REALRIDE.COM RACING
http://www.RealRide.com

[jpachard]

Originally posted by jluetjen
Personally I think that the 13/13 thing has been overplayed a bit. The next thing you know people will be accusing the SCCA of being "Liberal"!

Having raced in ITB for a number of years (certainly not a class of shrinking violoets BTW), I never had people lay a fender on me, nor did I on them. Keep in mind that SCCA racers are also racing on a budget and often can't afford to rebuild their car AND race the rest of the season, especially at the regional level. Some classes are worse then others, but people generally have quite a bit of money tied up in their cars and can't afford to throw it away. Like in all groups, beware the guys who drive like they can afford to rebuild the car after every race.

That being said, you generally won't see any SCCA race cars that look like "garage queens" either. There is incidental contact some time (and you won't be black flagged for it) and so a prudent racer attaches his fenders with dzus fasteners rather then rivets to simplify repairs. You may have heard of DFM (Design for manufacturbility), well smart race cars from F1 down to karts are designed with DFR (Design for repairability) in mind.

But it's hardly like demolition derby, and in many cases less rough and tumble then I've seen in the VARA videos posted here. Watch the Runoffs when Speed broadcasts them later next month. By most accounts the Runoffs often have the roughest driving because it is do-or-die championship situation.

Just getting my information from several guys who race now, one being my neighbor. I had a conversation with another SCCA guy at the local gas station and when he saw my car(the one I Club Race), He said don't bring that because it *will* get banged up. I've now raced two seasons with PCA under 13/13 and it works. Is it perfect, no, but in my experience it does go along way to helping folks take their car home at the end of a weekend in nice shape.

Cheers, James

[jluetjen]

James;
I raced regionals (budget permitting) from 1992 through 1997 in ITC, SR and ITB, all of which have been reported to be "rough" classes. This includes a field of 20-30 IT cars diving to turn 3 of NHIS on the opening lap. I also raced (in the rain) at LRP in a 30+ car ITB field infront of a crowd of 10K people -- and nothing creates "red mist" like racing in front of an audiance. I never had someone bang up my car with rough driving -- and its not for lack of door to door racing! I did see guys throw themselves off the track on occasion, and even did it myself. Sometimes people would get caught up. But I repeat, I never incountered anyone who used rough driving tactics. I'm not saying that rough drivers don't exist -- they do. I've seen them being protested each month in the SCCA magazine. But in the global scheme of things they're few and far between.

My point is that just because the SCCA doesn't have a 13/13 rule does not by any stretch of the imagination prove that the driving is rougher. People love to quote to each other the conventional wisdom that the SCCA is rougher then (fill in the blanks). Watch the Runoff's (by all accounts the worst case) and compare the level of driving to the vintage racing clips that have been posted on this web site.

Chris Foley (an old ITB competitor of mine) is currently racing here in the northeast in an F-Production 914. You can watch the videos that he's posted (including the regional 2004 North Atlantic Road Racing Championship (NARRC) Runoff's) and draw your own conclusions.

PS: I just watched the 2004 NARCCoff's video for the first time. Chris is doing an awsome job in Big-Bend. Note how much time he's making up on the entry over the other cars and holding it all the way through the exit.