Should I go racing or stick with HPDE?

[glenndeweirdt]

I have been participating in HPDE for three years (Mostly PCA, but some NASA and SCCA). I do about 15 HPDE days per year and I am a National Instructor for PCA and and instructor with SCCA. I have been approved for PCA Club Racing next year. I am unsure if it is worth making the step up as I am having a blast doing the DE thing. Here are the cold hard facts:

I drive a near-stock 2007 Cayman S (Roll bar, Race Seats/Harnesses, LSD are only mods). I would do a stock class (PCA Class H) to minimize mods (strip interior, welded rollcage, Hoosiers, LCA, headers etc.) and cost.

Problem #1- Am I fast enough? I run about 2:45 at Road America on street tires (Yokohama AD08s). With mods and on race tires I think it would bring me down to about 2:39-2:40. The competitive guys (and girls) in H class are running 2:34-2:36 at RA. Maybe I leave in the A/C and radio so I am entertained and comfortable while being lapped?

Problem #2- Budget. I am already spending about $12K per year with entry fees, lodging, tires, oil changes, DE Insurance, brakes, beer (lots of beer),etc. I think racing will double my budget (trailer,tow vehicle,more expensive consumables) and that will raise some eyebrows with my wife.

Problem #3-fun. Racing is extremely competitive and stressful. I am not by nature an extremely competitive person. I do HPDE to reduce my stress (funny how focusing on line and smoothness filters out all extraneous bull**** in your life). Do I really want to add a stress. Losing will not be fun and I am unlikely to end up with a podium finish for years if ever.

Problem #4-Risk. HPDE is risky but you can buy track insurance for disasters. If you race you will crash. 7 car pileup in the Kink at RA over Labor Day weekend with two guys cut from their cars and airlifted out. Is this worth it for a $5 plastic trophy?

So there you have it. Is racing so much more fun that it makes all these problems worth it? Let me know because I am on the fence. Thanks.

[BYprodriver]

I think your answer is contained within your post, if you do a "keyword" scan of your well written post like you are a resume scanner in a HR dept.

Having a blast now with beneficial "mind clearing" activities! Doubling your budget, unsure if it will be worth it, etc. You are wise to consider drawbacks, why screwup a good thing, car, weekend, marriage, etc.

[winders]

HPDE's are fun...but racing is a whole different level of fun. Those that have not raced have no idea what they are missing!

[juanbenae]

have you considered looking into an arrive & drive race service? a friend out here in no cal raced a season with PRC and was not competitive due to a huge horse power motor in what was pretty much a spec 911 class chassis set up. he burnt out on that quickly so looked to a local bay area guy who has three miatas that he rents out for race weekends/seasons. the service includes tires, fuel and all other required track side support. he loved it, but after a couple seasons due to business commitments he could not sign on for an entire season which many of these providers prefer. I don't know if there are any such offerings out there, but a three or four event agreement might give you a chance to earn your race license and go along way in determining if the sport is for you. if yir hooked, then decide if the cayman is the way to go, or sell it and acquire a already built racecar (much, much cheaper than building one).

regarding your intestinal fortitude for racing? some have it, some don't. recognizing my make up some I could have never, ever enjoyed the stress a racing environment can create if not having grown up racing motorcycles from the age of 5-6. there is a ton of waiting around where you can go freaking nuts if you let it. like your the defendant waiting on the jury to come back...

I see the arrive & drive as a way to dip the toe to see if it's fir ya. IMO

t23

[CRNT918]

You'll never know unless you try it yourself. The race guys will tell you that racing is the best, the DE guys say no. Do you really want to say shoulda, coulda, woulda?
You can always go back to DE if you don't like it or get tired of it.

[Menmojo]

Since your car fits in a stock PCA class why not do both?
You could race with PCA regionally next season at Road America, Gingerman and Putnam Park.
You could still do the HPDE's you've been in. That's what I would do in a second if my car fit into a class that I could be competitive in. Sounds like you're having second thoughts after what happened last weekend at RA? I don't blame you. It was a reality check for everyone there. Since my race car is turbo charged I get bumped into GT-1 in PCA or I would do both.....I don't want to be a target in that group. You're fast enough not to be a target in your class and a good driver Glenn. I'd give it a shot.

[Plavan]

Racing is only stressful if you make it stressful. Once you wheel 2 wheel race, HPDE's will feel like a waste of time. You will also just laugh at Autox'ing.

[michael lang]

I get the whole stress relief thing, that was the number one reason I was doing Driver's Ed events and I was doing just about as many if not a few more DE days than what you currently do. I can't really comment on what it's like to race, although it is something I did want to try to see if I preferred that over DE. I can say that I know first hand that it feels like to poop to have an on-track incident by a driver that in my opinion wasn't paying attention and looking far enough down the track. I was hit on the pass side at track out on T9 at Summit Point Main. That was two and a half years ago and this coming Saturday I will be going to pick my car up as it is finally finished. Since you understand the risks, understand the potential expense, would you be able to handle it emotionally/financially if something were to happen to you or your car? After the experience that I've gone through, I will still participate in DE because I think it is excellent driver training but my involvement will be much less than before after I have my car back. I wish the best of success in whatever you decide.

[RichardNew]

I've done both.

You really can't compare the two. Racing is just totally different from track events.

First, the budget. You will at least double the cost. If you're spending $12,00 now think $30,000 for a year of racing. That of course includes hotels and food.

You're going to get a lot less time on the track with racing. That to me is a huge factor.

At some point you're going to want to win. That's when it get's serious. That's when you start stealing the kid's lunch money for brake pads.

I would never go back to racing unless I had a huge budget and a really good team. Then again I did it for three years so who am I to give advice.

Just be prepared. Racing is nothing like a track day.

Richard Newton
Porsche Choices

[Fubawu]

What about getting your feet wet with Time Attack? Or Solo
Events? It's a good way to be competitive
without door to door issues.
I race my Porsche in various vintage events
as well as campaigning next season in the Canadian Touring
car championships (Acura TSX) my point to this is once racing it's
a slippery slope

[Plavan]

He will in no way double his current budget racing. Less track time, less expense. I don't even spend $12k/yr in expenses now with TWO race cars, and I'm finishing on the podium with one.

I have been racing since 1997. The only real expense is getting a tow vehicle and a trailer if you go that route.

I would be careful with that motor on Hoosiers though

[Fubawu]

Ya I agree I always hear "it's too expensive to
race". But really you are doing the same thing lapping.
I will admit it gets a bit pricey when you want to win
and every tenth counts. For the majority it's simple consumables
pads oil gas and tires.

In regards to tow vehicles my family hauler is also
My tow wagon so no loss there. There are many options
for affordable trailers.

The bigger question is if you want to... Not being
a competitive person makes me think you should
try solo/time attack. See how this comp suits you. You
might be surprised how competitive you are

[CRNT918]

If you really want to relieve stress, buy a Harley and go ride out in the country...

[Canine64]

Originally Posted by Plavan

Racing is only stressful if you make it stressful. Once you wheel 2 wheel race, HPDE's will feel like a waste of time. You will also just laugh at Autox'ing.

Couldn't agree more. The only "DE" event I would even consider are open track days like David Murry, which are awesome for test and tune. If you want to see how W2W racing is, why not try out Chump or AER or something similar? The racing is fun, allows you work on racecraft, and is cheap. And the absolute best part is the amount of actual race time you get.

Earlier this spring I purchased an e36 BMW with two good buddies. We split all expenses including cost of car, maintenance, and race expenses. We all have had the most fun on the track in any race series. And as an example, the entry fee for 22 hours of W2W at watkins Glen was $1100. Cheap!!! The entry fee for 16 hours at Lime Rock was $1000. Cheap!!!

You can even go on the Chumpcar website and rent a seat to see if you like it or not. Lots of opportunities out there. Don't limit yourself to PCA.

[Damon in STL]

I've raced motorcycles, Karts, and cars. I'm a competitive person and I like to win. What I found was the time commitment was my biggest obstacle. Between work, family, kids, race car maintenance/building, and then the actual events.....I always seemed to run out of time. That in itself was my biggest stress.

Since you say you are not competitive by nature.....the part time racing may work for you. There is nothing worse than the regret of not trying something when there was an opportunity.

Damon in STL

[glenndeweirdt]

Great perspectives! I may get my feet wet with Chump Car. Looks fun and is real racing. Maybe have a PCA Chicago Tech Team Chump Car!!

[RichardNew]

Racing is cheap. Winning is expensive.

Richard Newton
Historic Racing Images

[David993s]

You certainly have enough related experience to have a good idea of what you're getting into, unlike many inexperienced individuals who do a couple of track days and say they want to race.
You won't know if you should or shouldn't unless you give it a try. Like others have said, racing is very different from DE's and track days. Even if you don't want to spend the time, effort, money and dedication it takes to win, you can still have fun running in the back half of the field. There's always someone to race with, and if you don't let it stress you out, it will be a blast. It's about setting your expectations and goals.
Racing at the national level in SCCA for nearly 20 years was some of the best times of my life and more rewarding than most other activities in life.

[glenndeweirdt]

Originally Posted by RichardNew

Racing is cheap. Winning is expensive.

Richard Newton
Historic Racing Images

Great Quote! My other favorite is Cheap, Fast, or Reliable-pick two.

[Cajundaddy]

"Racing is cheap, winning is expensive." Indeed!

I raced motocross/Grand Prix for 6 years and National level yacht racing for 20. I loved it but also found it pretty all-consuming. I currently run 7 weekends/ yr Porsche Time Trials in a similar Cayman and it scratches the itch nicely. I am certain if I started club racing I would dive into the deep end, my costs would triple and my car would be stripped, caged, and no longer street-friendly. I would then require a box trailer, suitable diesel tow rig, significant tire and spares inventory, the latest racing data gizmo, and on and on. This is not everyone's story but it is certainly my story.

Personal reflection time. Who are you and how would this affect your life and relationships? I like the Chump car team idea rather than stripping out the Cayman.