Cayenne responsible for putting Porsche on the bottom
 

of the JD Power Initial Quality Survey.




Don't take my word for it, see for yourself



http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/ima...04037bfull.gif

http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/ima...04037cfull.gif

In the writeup, the Cayenne is "called out" as "the reason" for the drop in Porsche's rating. Sad, but true. History may show the Cayenne as the reason Porsche eventually fell under Ford Motor Company ownership.





J. D. Power: Initial Quality All-Time High
2004 J.D. Power survey: pleasant surprises — and unexpected disappointments.
by Paul A. Eisenstein (2004-05-03)

New car quality has hit an all-time high, with all but a handful of manufacturers making significant gains in the 2004 J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey.

The oft-quoted annual report, released today, delivers some unexpected surprises, showing how difficult it's become for any carmaker to dominate the quality charts anymore. Undoubtedly the biggest shocker comes from Korea. Long the industry laggard, Hyundai has soared past the traditional quality leader, Toyota. And even the Japanese automaker's premium brand is now getting some stiff competition - from Buick.

For 2004, Power's IQS reveals an 11-percent reduction in the number of problems the typical U.S. new car owner reported when compared to the 2003 survey. That is a positive development, especially as the quality numbers showed no gains in the previous two years.
"This is one of the more significant improvements we've seen," noted Power senior analyst Brian Walters.
What went wrong, Japan?

The IQS is a measure of what can be called "things gone wrong." That can include major problems, such as a blown engine, as well as more minor matters, including poorly placed cupholders. The survey counts up the number of problems participating owners experienced during the first 90 days of ownership, grouping them into nine separate categories. The final figure is calculated in terms of problems per 100 vehicles, or PP100s. Like golf, this contest goes to the lowest score.

And over the decades, the Japanese have consistently delivered industry-leading quality. This year, their products had a score of 111 PP100s, compared with 119 for the industry as a whole. Among individual manufacturers, Lexus was the brand to beat, with a score of 87, meaning less than one problem per vehicle.
Yet the Japanese do not dominate like they have in the past. Some key manufacturers tumbled. Nissan slipped 11 percent, driving it down to the lower tier of the 36 manufacturers Power ranked. Then there's Toyota, the company that first taught the industry the concept of initial quality. In the 2003 survey, the flagship Toyota brand actually suffered a seven-percent decline. It recovers in 2004, its initial quality gaining 14 percent, to 104 problems per 100 vehicles.

Hyundai stuns, Europe falls
But Toyota's gains weren't enough to overcome the most stunning come-from-behind performance of the year. With what Walters called a "surprising" 29-percent improvement, Hyundai sees its problem count drop to 102.

Until recently, Korean makers have anchored the IQS and other quality surveys. In 1998, when Power redesigned the Initial Quality Survey, they had a score of 272, nearly double the problems of the Japanese, at 156. This year, they surge to second place, with a group score of 117 PP100s, comfortably ahead of both Europeans and American automakers.
That underscores just how rapidly things are changing. In 1998, the Europeans, as a group, edged out the Japanese, led by luxury industry stalwarts Mercedes-Benz and BMW. Mercedes has had a number of serious quality problems in recent years, though it does show signs of a turnaround in the 2004 IQS, its score improving 20 percent.

Luxury makers regularly outscore mainstream brands, as one might expect. With a score of 87 this year, Lexus has again proven the brand to beat on the IQS, but several of its competitors are edging closer. Cadillac delivers a count of 93 problems per 100. And with several specific products, another General Motors division nudges even closer to Lexus territory. The Buick Century, which Walters described as "one of the best models in the industry," comes in with 63 PP100.

Individual products can make - or break - a manufacturer's overall score, as Porsche painfully discovered. Its 911 is the top-quality nameplate in the Premium Sports Car category, but overall, Porsche experiences a 36-percent decline, to 159 PP100s, due to the troubled debut of its Cayenne SUV.
P

Didn't the 928 also rate very poorly?

For good reason..Beautiful car, too many bits to go wrong.

Newest JD Power surveys
 

The newest JD Power magazine rates Porsche third behind Toyota and Honda in overall quality. This includes Acura and Lexus in the parent company's ratings, but even broken out by brand Porsche is far above average and the best European car company.

Bottom line? Those who pay a premiun for perceived "quality" by shopping brand name don't repeat the process once they feel they have been burned. Porsche sold it's soul for a temporary improvement in the bottom line. That's what happens when you place a bean counter in the CEO position. Porsche is not the first, nor will it be the last firm that this has happened to.

Being based on, or along side, the Toureg, it has many of the same problems. But as an SUV with less off road ability and for twice the $, it should be much better. For looks alone, I can't imagine choosing it over the Toureg. Porsche has now entered into the ugliest car competition with General Motors and BMW.

The end is truely near. Cadillac and Jaguar are sandwiched between Lexus and Honda at numbers two and three. What's going to happen next? The Bosox defend their title against the Cubs?

I find some faults in that report.

Audi ranks good but VW is bad. they are the same. The Cayanne is based on a VW chassis.

Just b/c the Cayanne is based on a VW chassis doesn't really mean anything. These scores factor in fit and finish and very minor problems so whatever chassis is under the car whoose power windows go out isn't really going to matter. I think we all knew the Cayanne was a poor move. Whoever on this list said "putting a bean counter as CEO" is the bigger error is spot on! When Porsche jumped into this damn SUV market it just went agaisnt everything that made me so found of Porsche. I JUST DONT UNDERSTAND THE NEED TO APPEAL TO EVERYONE....Many present and past companies have carved out there niche market and lived in it just fine. Plus I hate hearing all the goof-balls who know nothing about Porsche or Porsche history rambling on about their new Cayanne...and I do have to admit I see allot of them on the road. Way more than I expected.

I hate that too but if making an SUV that will keep the company alive and making sports cars, more power to them. I would rather have them do that than become part of Ford.

Even though sales for it are good now, I think the diluting it does to their overall image and the original expense for development and tooling will make them shakier overall financially. They were healthy enough without it. Also, the Toureg is just a better execution price excluded. Much better if you factor in the price, IMO.

Do you own either? Have you had an extended test drive of both? The Cayenne is the best peformance SUV on the market. It is smooth, fast, quiet, very offroad capable and looks good (family resemblance) in my opinion.

I've had a couple of minor things here and there with my 04 S, but it is still an awesome vehicle.

Own, no. Extended ride/drive, yes. I would not consider either to be true off-roaders (land rover man here). But IMO (and I off-road) the Toureg is definitely better.

I am one of those people who believes that SUV buyers who don't off-road should buy a wagon. Or, why bother!!

Anyway, the looks thing is sheer opinion, and mine is that it is quite lacking in appearance. It only bests the current BMW line and some of the GM stuff.

Can someone please explain to me the marriage of a Porsche and a SUV? I have never understood this concept at all. It just seems to me like asking Porsche to make a SUV is like asking Rolex to make a replacement for London's Big Ben. Yes a SUV is a automobile....yes Big Ben tells time...but come on neither company would be doing what their company does best. Many people are aware of the distant relationship between Porsche and VW but do we really want to be reminded of it today. The Tourege is running around in the same skin as the Cayenne. Do you know how many laypeople confuse the two? I have ridden in a Cayenne S and yes it is a optimal performing vehicle but come on who is climbing Pikes Peak here in their SUV. 99% of them are grocery getters and soccer ball transports. The SUV backlash in America is absolutely inevitable. Leave SUVs to GM, Ford, and other domestics b/c lets be honest it is the only thing that keeps them in business. We all know about the past vehicles Porsche produced strictly with the US market in mind and those cars have done nothing but lower the companies overall image.

Coolbeverage that was well put.

There is a very good reason I think why companies produce SUVs, money. Did you know that an average manufacturer makes about $1,000 profit on a car (depending on the car) after eveything is said and done. With SUVs of the same price, manufactueres stand to make $5,000 to $7,000 per vechile. Having mostly to do with the fact that SUVs are cheap to make and usually based on old technology.

PorscheGuy79 this is definitley true. I think Chrysler holds the record. That Jeep Grand Cherokee saved their asses. Supposedly they made $8 grand profit off of each one sold and for awhile there it was the best selling SUV which is saying allot when talking about SUVs. I heard the whole spiel from Porsche just before their SUV came out....it will raise profit letting more money to be spent on race efforts, R & D, etc.... If this is true....GO PORSCHE SUV GO............ Sell that thing to as many soccer moms as you can.

Porsche guy makes a good point that I will enhance. The "big 4" have trucks to base many of their SUVs on and Jeep and Land Rover have been in this game since its inception (in fact you can blame either for it). VW, atleast, has been in the truck game since the early 50s and even earlier if you consider the kubelwagen to be a truck. Porsceh makes wonderful sportcars and if they need a "new" direction, why not build a purist's car. You know, get rid of ALL! the bs luxo stuff and place a true RS back on US shores for a price that many can deal with. "Til then many of the faithfull will keep their eyes on the 356 and pre '90 911.

Maybe Porsche should make a pickup truck next. I mean pickups are one in every 3 vehichles on the road????? The Porsche Pick Up?????? That is just my point....where does it end. Cady is making a pick up, Lincoln is too, is Porsche next???

Imagine the Cayenne w/o the back lights, ouch! That would almost beat the Aztek as ugliest car ever. One question, as trucks still use a full frame, would Porsche use tubular steel, box steel or something exotic?? Hmm............

Too bad VW doesnt already make a pickup they could just throw a Porsche engine in it and call it theirs that is what they did with their SUV. I am not bad-mouthing VW my wife has a GTI and I love it. I am just seriously opposed to Porsche becoming the all purpose car company. I started out kidding about this pickup thing but the more I think about it the more I can actaully see if happening. I hope they put those amber lights on the cad in a V pattern with a stock gun rack and exhaust that runs up the sides of the cab........

Actually the primary reason Porsche entered the SUV market was because of a limited interest in sports cars in conjunction with the mass influx of high powered sports cars and sedans by MB/BMW and everyone else is introducing that are taking away from their market share, not to mention the sudden improvement in US sports cars costing 1/2 as much. Also because the SUV is still considered the strongest growing market with a very high profit margin.

The Cayenne is actually saving Porsches butt and keeping them alive or being taken over. I can't say much for the v6 or the S but the turbo is like no other SUV available the handling is far superior (literally like a large 911 and it will keep up with them if not pass some of them in both straight line and through the twisties depending on model) to anything else out there, and the ride quality and perormance is outsatanding. I was dead set agianst these from the start, all it took was a couple of hours driving and i was impressed.

Yes, it is an aquired taste regarding looks but after owning one and seeing what else is being offered it wins hands down in my book. The interior is great the stereo better than most I have heard and the overall feel is superior to any hulking SUV. Campared to my BIL's RR or ML55, BMW 4.4 I would not trade the CT for any of these for my needs. The RR and other SUv's have an advantage on size but the CT is really quite a superb vehicle. Give one a try I guarrantee you your attitude will change towards the pros on this one.

I am not saying sell your sports cars and buy a sport SUV, however, if you need a vehicle like the Cayenne it can bring quite a bit of driving pleasure as your 911/914/928/968 etc deliver and carry all the extra stuff to boot. Now even when it comes to SUV's ther is no substitute.

I am not doubting at all that Porsche is presently making the most high performance SUV on the market. As a matter of fact as soon as I heard about it I knew that this is exactly what it would be and I applauded them for this. However, my point on this whole topic was that it is needless, senseless, overindulgent and a vehicle only Americans would buy. That SUV could probably win a Pikes Peak challenge right out of the box. Obviously the SUV craze will march on obviously whoever else is left without one will also start manufacturing one (if there is anyone else left, Ferrari???). If it makes Porsche loads of money that is great too. I just think it puts loads of people behind a Porsche badged steering wheel who know nothing at all about Porsche and I guess this isn't necessarily a bad thing either. Most of my distain comes from years of hating SUVs anyway and not a hatred for the Cayenne to be truthful. My first ever car was a RX-7 followed by 2 more RX-7s until the SUV came along in the early 90s and killed almost all sports cars within my price range at the time. When I was growing up if you wanted a all purpose utilitarian vehicle you bought a station wagon b/c SUVs didn't exist. Plus anyone in their right mind would have to agree they are getting too damn large. God forbid the guy in a sports car who gets T-boned by a fat head talking on a cell phone blowing through a light in his Excursion....

I won't argue with you that SUV's have gotten way to large and that the majority of A holes that drive these things are oblivious to what is going on around them. Unfortunatly these people are dangerous, it doesn't matter what they are driving, they are in their own world and could care less if they are being safe or not.

Believe it or not the Cayenne is very popular in europe and the US market only accounts for 1/3 or so of overall sales.

I don't think there is much that can be done about the US's fascination with high HP large cars and trucks and unfortunatly the sports car market is pretty much dead or out of reach of the average buyer. So for many these cars are becoming an all around vehicle and if you need to drive one daily so you can transport things that don't fit into 911's or RX7's it is far better than a Grand Cherokee and Dodge Durango. At least the feeling of power and excitement can now be had were nothing but numbness was felt before.

I predict that the days of the sports car will soon be dead and only the wealthy few will be able to afford the supercars of tomorrow. Unfortunatly they call it progress. But even my 430 hp turbo 3.6 which just 10 years ago was the supercar of its time with just 360hp will have a hard time keeping up with some of these modern cars and trucks we will be seeing in the future. It looks like the new Z06 may be the last chance for the average guy to own a car with such capabilities and then again were can one trully appreciate a car with this much potential? It looks like the days of open road freedom are being restricted to track time only.

Speaking of station wagons it looks like Dodge is trying to convert that market now with a 300+hp hemi Magnum. Times are changing.

Thanks for the info I was wondering if the Cayanne was selling abroad. That throw back Dodge Hemi wagon is pretty cool. I like the commercial where the hot shot in the Lotus pulls up beside the guy in that new Dodge asking him what he has under the hood. I have always been a big fan of the hot hatchback and with the popularity of these cars in Euopre I kinda thought that after say the 10 year lag between Europen car trends and the US that maybe more cars like these would make it over. I almost bought a VW R32 for my wife but it isnt offered in a triptronic and she cant drive stick so she ended up with a GTI. Did you know many of the SUVs are getting idiot proffing to keep the cell phone glabber mouths on the road. I think it is Volvo who already has a system that alerts you if you start to leave your drive lane w/o the signal on by either a audible sounds through the stereo that sounds like those rumbble strips or by a shaking of the steering wheel like those video games. I think it is sad that it has come to this. I heard about a family of four who recently had a huge crash killing almost everyone involved b/c they were fight over which DVD to paly in their SUV.......Sad man sad

They do. It's called the GT3. It is very competitively priced when compared to a new 997, 997S, 996 Cabs, 996 TT, etc. If you are asking Porsche to build and sell a car for less than the cost of a new Boxster or used 911, why in their right mind would they do that and would they be profitable?

"would they be profitable?" The markup on any luxury item is massive. If they made a car simliar to the new Loutus (not a Lotus expert and I get Elise and Esprit confused but it is the one powered by the hopped up Toyota Celica engine, Elise?) I think it would be a huge seller. No fluff. Daily driver Mon-Frid. track car on the weekend...need only change the tires.

Exactly. If one does a comparison of the cost of a 911 from 1970 and now, using today's dollar value, you would see that a new 911 is more than double the cost. And, from a purist's point of view, half the car.

Lotus has it dead on!!

I was autocrossing a Miata recently and talked to a guy there who had a orange version of the Lotus and he loves it. It was so basic it and minimal and it reminded me of what owening a 550 Spyder must have been like. Seeing as how there aren't many orange Espri out there I think I have even seen the guy in workday traffic since. He said it is a joy to drive as a comuter also.

I agree with the concept but not with the soundness of it from a business perspective. First of all, the "purists" would $h!t in their pants if a bareboned RS type Porsche came with a Toyota engine, or a VW, or a Mitsubishi, heck, even a Boxster engine. Secondly, I believe this would dilute the brand even moreso than the Cayenne. Look at Mercedes, selling everything from a <$30K C class to a $400K SLR and everything in between. Mercedes has spread itself so thin that their quality has gone down the toilet. And lastly, Porsche has nothing to gain by undercutting their own Boxster with an affordable performance vehicle that frankly, will only appeal to a very small percentage of the market.

The boxster has done nothing to dilute the Porsche image and it is a subcontracted car. I also think that there are many who understand Porsche and would buy a lesser expensive model (duh!) since there are enough who are willing to buy a porsche, wait for it, truck??

Mercedes quality has come about because of the Chrysler bug not the huge $ gap. Or are you arguing that the current wide $ range w/in Porche is going to negatively affect their quality. Hmmmm?

I did not say the Boxster was diluting the Porsche brand. I said if they subcontracted for an engine similar to the Toyota motor in the Elise, that would dilute the brand.

Yes, the masses would buy a less expensive model. No, the masses won't buy a hard core, track beast with little to no creature comforts that would beat them to death on the streets. Again, for hard core "enthusiasts" such as yourself, it is a no brainer. For the rest of the world, the decision isn't that hard.

The benefit of having other models besides the top notch very expensive models is that you build a life-long customer. It works like this. Obviously not at this time nor any time before this have I been able to afford say a 997. At some point can I see myself able to? Yes. If I start with a baseline car (this hypothetical car we are referring to priced below a Boxster) then progress to say a Boxster, maybe then a S model, then whatever version of 911 they are into (998, 999). There is no way for a car company to make more money off of a customer than if they are a life long owner. The dealerships make almost all their money from parts and labor, the factory continues to reel me in model after model till hell maybe I even buy a Cayenne for the wife????? I have owned 3 RX-7s and a Miata all 4 cars were building to a P-car purchase. What if Porsche had had my business for all 4 rather than Mazda? The only people really upset about what Benz is doing is grumpy old men who think they are too good to sit in the waiting lounge with the 27 year old guy who is driving his first more base model Benz. Is the 27 year old guy upset? Hell no he is pleased as hell to be driving his Benz, he has allot of fun doing so, and he could not give a **** what the old man thinks. I am the same way. I could not give a **** what a purist of Porsche thinks. Am I happy yes, am I learning more and more about a great car. Yes! Besides purist is just a nice way of saying elitist if you ask me.

My comments about building a lightweight haven't been as much about $ but more about the car. The Cayenne S isn't very pricey (when one looks at the rediculous prices SUVs get these days). It's been about the car. I almost bought a new 1996 911 cab, but it bored me to death. The older cars might not be as competant but they give much more imput to the driver and are about the driving experience. I can easily recall when people mourned the advent of power assist brakes (still say that my SC doesn't need them) then on to the auto tranny, now cup holders. What's next, 4 doors. When was the last time the 911 was a sports car?? I guess with every r type. Unfortunately in the beginning all of them were sports cars with the Rs being the ready to race model!

Well said. I couldn't agree more with you Coolbeverage and Mark. Unfortunately for us, Porsche will continue to market cars to the upper middle class and above. I am sure they look at various criteria including household income, age, sex, etc. Branding is extremely important to a companies success and to create brand loyalty. However, Porsche has a different problem than, say, Toyota. Toyota is competing at the entry level with Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, Ford, etc. They are hoping as their consumers climb the totem pole of success, they will remain loyal to the brand. Porsche doesn't have that problem. Don't you remember when you were a kid? For me, I will always remember the poster of the 930, with the buldging fenders, big tail, insane performance. I was "branded" for life. The loyalty was already ingrained. So, when income caught up, I purchased a 993TT.

And to me, the 993TT is still a "sportscar"!

ok, this is meant to be FUNNY so don't go gettin' all uppity .!!

The reason Porsche make it is easy - $$$$

Interesting point made.

Who ever thought or said that Porsche ever really marketed their cars to anything but the higher end market?

Porsche's have always been in a price range higher than your average car. Not as expensive as say Ferrari but pricy none the less. Even the 914 which is considered to be an inexpensive car was pricy for its day. The "average buyer" was never what Porsche was marketing their cars to. Now the SUV market is being taken to a new level by having Porsche build and sell a car that is forcing the other Auto makers to re-evaluate the SUV market.

I commend Porsche for taking such a bold and risky step and what they produced was a vehicle that allows one to have the fun of a sports car and still have a vehicle that can be used for utilitarian purposes.

Also who said the older cars can't keep up with the new. Although the older cars may need some minor updating, these cars with minor mods can easily keep up if not surpass some of the newer models. My 3.6T now 11 years old can hold its on against any modern car. Porsche, vette, viper you name it. My Cayenne can easily blast buy and handle as well as most any sedan out there. IMO it does a better job, feels like a Porsche and brings a smile to my face almost as much as my 3.6T and I have owned and driven many Porsche's amongst other cars over the past 20+ years. For the same price side by side I would take a Cayenne S over my mothers MB E500 any day. The quality is better the feel is better and the entire vehicle is just plain better.

My recommendation to everyone is to take one for a test drive. Not just a take it slow and drive around the block test drive but mash the pedal to the floor and use the tip to power through the turns test drive. I guarentee you will see things differently.

Lastly, you show me one business out there that is not interested in making money and I will show you a dying business. Hell yeah it's always about money. :D