Drive-shaft bearing issue? Don't buy this...

[island911]

off ebay.

The short version: Sure, it appears to be the correct part. It will even fit. But the build quality is poor, and --after lots of work to install-- it may not improve your situation of a blown-out bearing support. --I had a similar drive-shaft thumping/oscillation with it installed.


The long version:
Here are a couple images of the OE bearing holder and the above product.



OE frame only . . .and . . . the new part installed on the drive shaft.

.. oh, what . . is that mounting flange WAY out of square?


Yes it is...



But wait . .there's more. .. the frame appears to be much thinner than OE

What does the OE measure?




And the Vollig (after market) piece...


Well that sucks.

I think, "well, can I get it back off the shaft without destroying things? --nope. Not without building some specialized tooling. "

So, I think "maybe it will be good enough . . ridged enough." Finish installing the drive shaft.

Take it out for a test drive. . . and . . . thump thump thump thump thump thump . . ..

ah, F#%($()()&%*


Hopefully others don't make the same mistake/purchase that I made.

[mark4ton]

thanks man! sorry about the happening... mine hasn't gone out yet, so thanks for the warning.

[island911]

It will go out. :-/ --the rubber (even on the OE version) is surprisingly minimal. expect 70 -80k miles.

btw, if you go this route, of replacing only the carrier; know that splitting the shaft is a messy PITA. (like a CV joint but worse --crimp boot seal, tight spline fit means a gear puller . . but you need that for the bearing anyway.)

OTOH, The price on complete shafts have been coming down, but I figured that the shafts were likely dynamically balance on the car at the factory - so why risk that potential imbalance of a replacement shaft...

As an update on the OP...

The ebay seller apparently is selling only a "Heavy duty" version of that part. (note the Orange bearing center (which was same as OE) - not black, as in the pict's above.)

I don't know if "Heavy duty" is heavy-duty relative only to the previous wimpy unacceptable version or if it now meets the specs of the OE.

They have offered me this "Heavy duty" version as a replacement, I asked for a refund. We'll see...

[mark4ton]

its just going to started thumping ? randomly?

should i replace it before it goes out? and how do i know if it hasn't already been replaced?

[island911]

In short, yeah, it will just start thumping one day. --likely between 70-80k miles.

Apparently what happens is the rubber 'doughnut' breaks down and starts to tear. So I suppose that you could inspect for cracks.

Once fully cracked/torn the shaft will be off-center and wobble about in what's left of the carrier(that steel ring). I don't believe that the wobble/ thumping causes any damage - but it sure isn't pleasant.

From what I've researched you can:

take it to Porsche and ~$1500 later you will have a new drive shaft with a new carrier.

Or you can buy a new drive shaft assembly for about half that. (Pelican has this option) and instal yourself.

Or you can buy just a replacement carrier for just ~$100 - but that involves splitting the drive-shaft at the center CV joint, using a gear puller to pull things apart, and a press (of some sort) to put the parts back on. (don't forget to mark everything for alignment on re-assembly))

Of course the worst part --in my case-- was dealing with the idiots (Bremen Tech) who sold me a wimpy carrier, and refused to refund because I left (accurate) negative feedback. Apparently they depend on fooling new customers for new sales.

[wcc]

Originally Posted by mark4ton

its just going to started thumping ? randomly?

should i replace it before it goes out? and how do i know if it hasn't already been replaced?

Yup, my wife's '04 was just fine then it just 'went' and it progressed very quickly probably within an hour. We towed it to the dealer and it was something like $1200 to have replaced. But maybe others can correct me if I'm wrong here but I thought that was primarily the '04s had the issue. I don't think the the '06 does, that you show in your signature.

island911 - Sorry to hear about your dealings on Ebay. It's great you have time to work on it though and can let it sit while you get parts and things. Our '04 is my wife's DD so I don't mess around with it like you do yours. Having her car down there's too much pressure so it typically goes in. If I work on stuff it's the routine maintenance and brakes, but these out of the ordinary fixes/breakdowns it goes in. Kudos to you for making/keeping the Cayenne section alive....

[island911]

Originally Posted by wcc

Y... maybe others can correct me if I'm wrong here but I thought that was primarily the '04s had the issue. I don't think the the '06 does, that you show in your signature.....

Hate to say, but apparently they all use the same. In fact one of Pelicans competitors has invested greatly in addressing this issue, stating that the ~280,000 Cayennes produced world wide have this issue. --they have set up to rebuild the shafts. ...which should last another 70-80k, I expect.

I had thought of making a longer-lasting reinforced (Kevlar) piece, but, meh...

btw, thanks for the kudo's.

[Imcoz]

I have a Touereg and will soon be towing my Cup Car with it. I've heard they have the same problem. I see Vertex has a replacement bearing support advertised to install in just 30 minutes... not sure its worth the high price since from what I understand its the rubber support that fails due to the center bearing binding and overheating. Does this sound correct?

Seems the new support may be of little use without a reliable rubber bush and bearing...

Cayenne Drive Shaft Clamping Bearing Support Mount: Drivetrain &amp Drive Shafts

[island911]

Yeah, I saw that, and yeah, this engineer thinks it's not worth the price. ... rather Rube Goldberg.

I actually designed a much less expensive sol'n for mine. --it's in testing.

[Imcoz]

This link shows a guy replacing the bearing too... thought I'd post it since it may be helpful to those Pelicans tackling the issue in the future.


Replace Touareg Drive Shaft Center Carrier Bearing for $75.00 - iwoodknot

[mark4ton]

does seem like a lot of money. maybe if they had it guaranteed? they're advertising it pretty strongly as being the "permanent fix"

Originally Posted by Imcoz

I have a Touereg and will soon be towing my Cup Car with it. I've heard they have the same problem. I see Vertex has a replacement bearing support advertised to install in just 30 minutes... not sure its worth the high price since from what I understand its the rubber support that fails due to the center bearing binding and overheating. Does this sound correct?

Seems the new support may be of little use without a reliable rubber bush and bearing...

Cayenne Drive Shaft Clamping Bearing Support Mount: Drivetrain &amp Drive Shafts

[island911]

not only is it a lot of money but it's also a PITA. Their video skips right over the part where they cut the old rubber off of the bearing. --THAT is a time consuming task. Oh, and have and have band-aides at the ready.

Also of note; that is not a "permanent fix" if the bearing goes. OTOH, The bearing is sealed, so that may be a while. I will also note that their sol'n does not have the extra rubber flange over the bearing edge - as the OE bearing assembly does.

[Imcoz]

Seems to me you want to get in there and upgrade the assembly before there's any bearing issues... I would think that when the issue arises some bearing damage, or at least unusual wear has already occurred. Guess I know what I'll be doing next weekend

[island911]

Yeah, it would be strange for one of those bearings to go. --the real problem in the design (OE) is with the rubber (fatigue.)

IMO, just give a visual check (easy) before thinking of tackling the job. --the full job is a messy pain in the butt. The longer that you can make each one last, the fewer times it will be needed.

[Mike80911]

I was driving my 04 on the highway today and I thought I had a flat when I pulled over all of the tires were fine. I got back in started driving and it started to make a terrible racket. After reading this post I went under the car and checked the bearing it looked ok but when I grab the driveshaft it moves side to side quite a bit so I am guessing mine is shot also. Would that be correct? Vortex sells a rebuilt shaft for $385 seems like the easiest and most cost effective fix. What do you guys think?

[Imcoz]

Originally Posted by Mike80911

I was driving my 04 on the highway today and I thought I had a flat when I pulled over all of the tires were fine. I got back in started driving and it started to make a terrible racket. After reading this post I went under the car and checked the bearing it looked ok but when I grab the driveshaft it moves side to side quite a bit so I am guessing mine is shot also. Would that be correct? Vortex sells a rebuilt shaft for $385 seems like the easiest and most cost effective fix. What do you guys think?

Mike,
Do you have a web link for the Vortex part? Also, how many miles on your 04? If you have high miles, a drive shaft replacement/rebuild could make sense.

Keep in mind our host supplies the shaft and or support/bearing also.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/955C/POR_955C_TRANSM_pg2.htm#item8

[Imcoz]

Oh! Pardon my stupidity, should have put it together... you meant Vertex...

Porsche Cayenne Drive Shaft - Rebuilt: Drivetrain &amp Axle Shafts

I noticed they recommend the Driveshaft Flex Disc too.

[Mike80911]

Sorry I should have proof read it first. I did mean Vertex. My 04 has 84,000 miles on it. The parts from our host are to rebuild your own driveshaft correct? The Vertex shaft is a complete replacement. I do not have the time nor space to rebuild it so I think the replacement is the way to go. I don't think I should be able to move the shaft side to side it should be tight in the carrier am I right?

[Imcoz]

Peli has the whole shaft as well.

Usually the shaft is moving around because of the rubber bush built in to the bearing/bearing support has failed. Now if the drive shaft has been slapping around its possible the bearing is questionable and the internal CV joint may be as well.

At 84K, replacing the whole assebly certainly wouldn't be a bad move since the shaft has to be mostly removed to change out the bearing support. I say do it once, do it right and get another 84K out of it Just my .02.

[Mike80911]

Thanks Imcoz obviously great minds think alike I am going to replace it all. I am trying to get warrenty to pay for it they say the driveshaft is covered and as far as I am concerned it is all one piece.